Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Noisy noise annoys]

I, probably like many people, didn't have an in-depth knowledge of the Israel-Palestine history and conflict prior to what happened in October.

And I certainly had no idea whatsoever and continue to be blown away by just how steadfast the US is in its blind support of Israel in spite of all the evidence of what's going on.

(I won't comment on how sickened I am at our own government's and opposition'lack of action on Israel)

The US has turned on its own citizens for having the audacity to leverage their right of free speech. Young people have been manhandled and assaulted by police for supporting Palestine - not Hamas.

The US has seen handfuls of its OWN citizens, be them those kidnapped by Hamas or mostly aid workers, killed by bombs provided by the US in Palestine!

This war would end tomorrow if the US wanted it to.

Then you see the likes of Trump throwing his weight behind the police's unjust treatment of the students and staff protesting at the country's most esteemed learning institutions.

It's all absolutely sick. Israel could go into Rafah tomorrow and gun down half a million people in cold blood and the US would still be being 'concerned at what they are seeing' and 'waiting for the IDF to provide a results if it's investigation as to what happened'.

How does Israel control the UK, US and majority of European governments?

Excellent post

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

It's the constant conflation of antisemitism and Anti-Zionism that gets me (sometimes ignorance but more often than not deliberate).

Absolutely. Israel have made me "anti-semitic", not because I have an issue with Jewish people, (without going into detail, a lot of my close family are Jewish) but because they have decided that anyone criticising their genocide is an anti-semite. It is disgusting but works wonders for their crusade.

 

[GoldenToffee]

Excellent post

Lots of awful grammar due to my swipe / predictive text combo, but thanks a lot.

 

[SundayMondayMagayeGueye]

Absolutely. Israel have made me "anti-semitic", not because I have an issue with Jewish people, (without going into detail, a lot of my close family are Jewish) but because they have decided that anyone criticising their genocide is an anti-semite. It is disgusting but works wonders for their crusade.

There are plenty of Jews on the marches, Na'amod for example (Jews against the occupation). I saw pro Palestine Jews amongst the protesters on the US college campuses getting interviewed for Al Jazeera yesterday. You'll never see this on BBC, CNN, etc though, it's an absolute narrative buster.

Also the recent Professor David Miller landmark case. Zionism is a political philosophy, being anti-zionist is protected under the equalities act.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

There are plenty of Jews on the marches, Na'amod for example (Jews against the occupation). I saw pro Palestine Jews amongst the protesters on the US college campuses getting interviewed for Al Jazeera yesterday. You'll never see this on BBC, CNN, etc though, it's an absolute narrative buster.

Also the recent Professor David Miller landmark case. Zionism is a political philosophy, being anti-zionist is protected under the equalities act.

Absolutely

 

[Ruairi77]

I, probably like many people, didn't have an in-depth knowledge of the Israel-Palestine history and conflict prior to what happened in October.

And I certainly had no idea whatsoever and continue to be blown away by just how steadfast the US is in its blind support of Israel in spite of all the evidence of what's going on.

(I won't comment on how sickened I am at our own government's and opposition'lack of action on Israel)

The US has turned on its own citizens for having the audacity to leverage their right of free speech. Young people have been manhandled and assaulted by police for supporting Palestine - not Hamas.

The US has seen handfuls of its OWN citizens, be them those kidnapped by Hamas or mostly aid workers, killed by bombs provided by the US in Palestine!

This war would end tomorrow if the US wanted it to.

Then you see the likes of Trump throwing his weight behind the police's unjust treatment of the students and staff protesting at the country's most esteemed learning institutions.

It's all absolutely sick. Israel could go into Rafah tomorrow and gun down half a million people in cold blood and the US would still be being 'concerned at what they are seeing' and 'waiting for the IDF to provide a results if it's investigation as to what happened'.

How does Israel control the UK, US and majority of European governments?

I've lived here for 16 years now,
The US/Israel relationship has always been a strange one to me.

The impression I get is that strong political support for Israel was always a political no brainer.
Years ago, it was easy to paint the PLO as the bad guys. Anything Clinton, Arafat and Rabin accomplished was a plus politically.
A generation of kids here have gone on what's called 'birth right'. Basically if you're Jewish, Israel will pay for you to come to Israel on an all expenses paid trip to learn about the country. I know a lot of people who have done it, not one has questioned the name.
Pretty much every federal politician is also brought on many trips to Israel and pampered. AIPAC has made sure to keep a tight reign on control of political donations where as the more liberal J Street get shoved aside.

Israeli support is the result of a huge, well thought out machine which really faced no opposition.
Basically, that was the way it'd been for years and there was nothing to be gained by bucking the trend.

That's changing now.
People over 30 are avoiding conversations about it as opposed to the usual staunch Israeli support.
People under 30 are vocally supporting Palestine which is a first in America.
The Muslim community, which can be quite disparate is uniting behind Palestine. They have political power.

The heavy handed approach to campus protests is the last thing Biden wanted.
After the way Claudine Gay was treated, colleges wanted to nip it in the bud. There's also huge pressure from Jewish mega doners. Robert Kraft withdrew financial support for Columbia this week.

Biden is trying to thread a political needle here. He's trying for a ceasefire which is the only thing that makes sense for him politically. The republicans want that to fall on its face so they'll do everything they can to stop it, including ranting about the ICC.

It doesnt help that all this is in an election year but Bibi has done untold damage to Israeli support here.
What was unequivocal a year ago is now hugely questionable.

Bit of a rambly post there.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I've lived here for 16 years now,
The US/Israel relationship has always been a strange one to me.

The impression I get is that strong political support for Israel was always a political no brainer.
Years ago, it was easy to paint the PLO as the bad guys. Anything Clinton, Arafat and Rabin accomplished was a plus politically.
A generation of kids here have gone on what's called 'birth right'. Basically if you're Jewish, Israel will pay for you to come to Israel on an all expenses paid trip to learn about the country. I know a lot of people who have done it, not one has questioned the name.
Pretty much every federal politician is also brought on many trips to Israel and pampered. AIPAC has made sure to keep a tight reign on control of political donations where as the more liberal J Street get shoved aside.

Israeli support is the result of a huge, well thought out machine which really faced no opposition.
Basically, that was the way it'd been for years and there was nothing to be gained by bucking the trend.

That's changing now.
People over 30 are avoiding conversations about it as opposed to the usual staunch Israeli support.
People under 30 are vocally supporting Palestine which is a first in America.
The Muslim community, which can be quite disparate is uniting behind Palestine. They have political power.

The heavy handed approach to campus protests is the last thing Biden wanted.
After the way Claudine Gay was treated, colleges wanted to nip it in the bud. There's also huge pressure from Jewish mega doners. Robert Kraft withdrew financial support for Columbia this week.

Biden is trying to thread a political needle here. He's trying for a ceasefire which is the only thing that makes sense for him politically. The republicans want that to fall on its face so they'll do everything they can to stop it, including ranting about the ICC.

It doesnt help that all this is in an election year but Bibi has done untold damage to Israeli support here.
What was unequivocal a year ago is now hugely questionable.

Bit of a rambly post there.

Very interesting, thanks

 

[GoldenToffee]

I've lived here for 16 years now,
The US/Israel relationship has always been a strange one to me.

The impression I get is that strong political support for Israel was always a political no brainer.
Years ago, it was easy to paint the PLO as the bad guys. Anything Clinton, Arafat and Rabin accomplished was a plus politically.
A generation of kids here have gone on what's called 'birth right'. Basically if you're Jewish, Israel will pay for you to come to Israel on an all expenses paid trip to learn about the country. I know a lot of people who have done it, not one has questioned the name.
Pretty much every federal politician is also brought on many trips to Israel and pampered. AIPAC has made sure to keep a tight reign on control of political donations where as the more liberal J Street get shoved aside.

Israeli support is the result of a huge, well thought out machine which really faced no opposition.
Basically, that was the way it'd been for years and there was nothing to be gained by bucking the trend.

That's changing now.
People over 30 are avoiding conversations about it as opposed to the usual staunch Israeli support.
People under 30 are vocally supporting Palestine which is a first in America.
The Muslim community, which can be quite disparate is uniting behind Palestine. They have political power.

The heavy handed approach to campus protests is the last thing Biden wanted.
After the way Claudine Gay was treated, colleges wanted to nip it in the bud. There's also huge pressure from Jewish mega doners. Robert Kraft withdrew financial support for Columbia this week.

Biden is trying to thread a political needle here. He's trying for a ceasefire which is the only thing that makes sense for him politically. The republicans want that to fall on its face so they'll do everything they can to stop it, including ranting about the ICC.

It doesnt help that all this is in an election year but Bibi has done untold damage to Israeli support here.
What was unequivocal a year ago is now hugely questionable.

Bit of a rambly post there.

Thanks for sharing all of that.

Question - do you feel anything happening right now would be handled any differently under Trump? Maybe an even more heavy handed approach and Twitter-filled threats to students and professors?

He's also incredibly pro Israel but receives significantly less bribe donor money from them than Biden.

Sad for voters who want a President who supports free speech, freedom of press and stands against genocide - they won't get one no matter who wins the election.

Scary times.

 

[Ruairi77]

Thanks for sharing all of that.

Question - do you feel anything happening right now would be handled any differently under Trump? Maybe an even more heavy handed approach and Twitter-filled threats to students and professors?

He's also incredibly pro Israel but receives significantly less bribe donor money from them than Biden.

Sad for voters who want a President who supports free speech, freedom of press and stands against genocide - they won't get one no matter who wins the election.

Scary times.

I think Trump would have gone all in in support of Bibi (not that biden is showing much resistance).
I dont think either would put US boots on the ground but Trump would celebrate genocide and make very little effort to seek a peaceful solution.

There is also a VERY high possibility that under Trump, the US would be at war with Iran or at least the proxy war would be hugely escalated.
I'm not sure who benefits more from AIPAC donations, perhaps Biden but I'd say it's close and they are doing all they can to challenge progressive candidates down ballot. Far more Democrats contribute to AIPAC but their focus is on challenging politicians sympathetic to Palestine (so no republicans).

Also who knows what Trump (and the Kushners, who'll lurk in the background in any new administration) have in mind for the region.
You can be guaranteed that Trump is salivating at the prospect of a bunch of new prime Mediterranean beach front property.

As for wanting free speech, freedom of press and no genocide... I dont think Biden is any Better or worse than any other recent POTUS bar Trump.
A second term for Trump will spell the end of the first amendment by means of the second.

 

[tsubaki]

I think Trump would have gone all in in support of Bibi (not that biden is showing much resistance).
I dont think either would put US boots on the ground but Trump would celebrate genocide and make very little effort to seek a peaceful solution.

There is also a VERY high possibility that under Trump, the US would be at war with Iran or at least the proxy war would be hugely escalated.
I'm not sure who benefits more from AIPAC donations, perhaps Biden but I'd say it's close and they are doing all they can to challenge progressive candidates down ballot. Far more Democrats contribute to AIPAC but their focus is on challenging politicians sympathetic to Palestine (so no republicans).

Also who knows what Trump (and the Kushners, who'll lurk in the background in any new administration) have in mind for the region.
You can be guaranteed that Trump is salivating at the prospect of a bunch of new prime Mediterranean beach front property.

As for wanting free speech, freedom of press and no genocide... I dont think Biden is any Better or worse than any other recent POTUS bar Trump.
A second term for Trump will spell the end of the first amendment by means of the second.

I do wonder about that - the thing with Trump is that he is much more transactional than Biden, and he does have genuine popular support that could stand up to the lobby.

It’s hard to say what he’d have done after October 7th, but I really do think he’d not have let himself get ridden by Netanyahu as Biden has. He already blames him (correctly) for the failure of 7/10 and was burnt by him over that Solemani thing. I think he’d have made US support conditional on Netanyahu being sacrificed, but who he’d work with after that is anyone’s guess. Whoever it was would probably have to accept that Trump was in charge though, and that this would end when Trump said.

 

[Ruairi77]

I do wonder about that - the thing with Trump is that he is much more transactional than Biden, and he does have genuine popular support that could stand up to the lobby.

It’s hard to say what he’d have done after October 7th, but I really do think he’d not have let himself get ridden by Netanyahu as Biden has. He already blames him (correctly) for the failure of 7/10 and was burnt by him over that Solemani thing. I think he’d have made US support conditional on Netanyahu being sacrificed, but who he’d work with after that is anyone’s guess. Whoever it was would probably have to accept that Trump was in charge though, and that this would end when Trump said.

no way, no chance. Trump and Bibi are peas in a pod. Both men know that.
He wouldn't be ridden by Bibi because Bibi would have his full support.
The only thing that might calm the situation if Trump were in charge would be Saudi intervention. But even then the likelyhood of a massive regional war would be much greater.
The US havent done enough for Gaza, that's clear. But there has been a lot of diplomatic work going on to prevent a massive regional conflict.

 

[Blue 1]

I do wonder about that - the thing with Trump is that he is much more transactional than Biden, and he does have genuine popular support that could stand up to the lobby.

It’s hard to say what he’d have done after October 7th, but I really do think he’d not have let himself get ridden by Netanyahu as Biden has. He already blames him (correctly) for the failure of 7/10 and was burnt by him over that Solemani thing. I think he’d have made US support conditional on Netanyahu being sacrificed, but who he’d work with after that is anyone’s guess. Whoever it was would probably have to accept that Trump was in charge though, and that this would end when Trump said.

Itamar Ben-Gvir?

 

[tsubaki]

no way, no chance. Trump and Bibi are peas in a pod. Both men know that.
He wouldn't be ridden by Bibi because Bibi would have his full support.
The only thing that might calm the situation if Trump were in charge would be Saudi intervention. But even then the likelyhood of a massive regional war would be much greater.
The US havent done enough for Gaza, that's clear. But there has been a lot of diplomatic work going on to prevent a massive regional conflict.

I really don't think he (Netanyahu) would - Trump is all about himself, and he'd want something in exchange for a blank cheque. There is also the for Trump relevant factor that Netanyahu is, electorally and in terms of what he has done, a serial loser. His weakness is obvious, we are reminded of it every day.

As I said he's already publicly complained about Netanyahu leaving him in the lurch over Iran and blamed him for the failures of 7/10; I just don't see why Trump would just go along with him irrespective of what he actually did especially if it wasn't in Trump's interest.

Itamar Ben-Gvir?

I doubt it, both him and Smotrich are insignificant creatures raised to eminence by Netanyahu's current circumstances. Gallant would probably be more to his tastes.

 

[Ruairi77]

I really don't think he (Netanyahu) would - Trump is all about himself, and he'd want something in exchange for a blank cheque. There is also the for Trump relevant factor that Netanyahu is, electorally and in terms of what he has done, a serial loser. His weakness is obvious, we are reminded of it every day.

As I said he's already publicly complained about Netanyahu leaving him in the lurch over Iran and blamed him for the failures of 7/10; I just don't see why Trump would just go along with him irrespective of what he actually did especially if it wasn't in Trump's interest.



I doubt it, both him and Smotrich are insignificant creatures raised to eminence by Netanyahu's current circumstances. Gallant would probably be more to his tastes.

Trumps base is fiercely anti Muslim.
The evangelical wing of his base is very pro Israel.
There's no way he pushes Bibi out for a more moderate conciliatory government.
He moved the capital from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
His family hold business interests in the area that rely on Bibi.
If Trump gets back in to power he oversees the end to any two state solution and likely the end of Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[Blue 1]

I really don't think he (Netanyahu) would - Trump is all about himself, and he'd want something in exchange for a blank cheque. There is also the for Trump relevant factor that Netanyahu is, electorally and in terms of what he has done, a serial loser. His weakness is obvious, we are reminded of it every day.

As I said he's already publicly complained about Netanyahu leaving him in the lurch over Iran and blamed him for the failures of 7/10; I just don't see why Trump would just go along with him irrespective of what he actually did especially if it wasn't in Trump's interest.



I doubt it, both him and Smotrich are insignificant creatures raised to eminence by Netanyahu's current circumstances. Gallant would probably be more to his tastes.

I wasn't being entirely serious. Those two will get yeeted at the first opportunity.