Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[BigMick]

Bigmick will blame the pesky natives for this

Disgusting

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I've said it before...

While I appreciate the Israeli situation and desire/will to protect itself, they appear to have morphed into the bully victim that becomes a bully itself.

The right to exist does not equate to the right to commit the atrocities that they do. However, they act as the US's/West's balance and check to Arab world.

That's why so many turn a blind to their actions. I ain't an expert on the situation, far from it, but it's difficult to not be aghast at many of the actions of the state.

A very good post
While they have the yanks in their pocket, nothing will change. Having said that, the dems have made reference to the situation and need for change

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Can you declare someone’s land as your own?
You tell me

@BigMick

 

[BigMick]

I think Mick's wife is Palestinian, IIRC. I think he's pretty balanced and well-informed and I find his posts incredibly informative, even if I don't always entirely agree with his takes. Arguing online about this conflict is about as soul-destroying and pointless a pursuit as I've ever found so I tend not to bother. I end up doing it with my Dad's partner often enough, as she just sees Israel as an entirely evil entity and in my mind crosses the line into antisemitism fairly regularly.

Thank you mate.

It can certainly be soul destroying.

And your're spot on about the pointlessness of discussing it online - that's why I ignored this thread for so long! In the end, because it's so important to me and my family, I started to post. I actually hate getting bogged down in the past, despite my recent posts trying to explain some of the intricacies of the situation. For me, as always, it's the present and the future that counts.

 

[BigMick]

I find mick leans heavily on the Israeli take. He is very informative, but not without prejudice I feel.

I’ve discussed Palestine at length on line for years, and yes, it’s futile. The truth does need telling though.

Genuinely sorry you feel that way.

All I can say is I worked for many years in the area - which doesn't make my opinion more valuable than anyone else's by the way, and there are several contributors to this thread that I respect - and have tried to provide a bit of information that may be not known to the average person. Almost everyone on here seems to be pro-Palestinian as though it's a football match, when actually it's a tragedy for both people. You seem to be unable to grasp that fact.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Genuinely sorry you feel that way.

All I can say is I worked for many years in the area - which doesn't make my opinion more valuable than anyone else's by the way, and there are several contributors to this thread that I respect - and have tried to provide a bit of information that may be not known to the average person. Almost everyone on here seems to be pro-Palestinian as though it's a football match, when actually it's a tragedy for both people. You seem to be unable to grasp that fact.

I re ally enjoy your posts and I know they are well intended, I’m just looking at cold, hard facts. The Palestinians have been had over, big time, and it’s getting worse

There is always an Israeli spin on it, as if they are the victims some how (this is from brits I know who have moved there). The creation of Israel has caused untold misery for these people.

I ask you again; Can you declare someone’s land as your own?

 

[BigMick]

I re ally enjoy your posts and I know they are well intended, I’m just looking at cold, hard facts. The Palestinians have been had over, big time, and it’s getting worse

There is always an Israeli spin on it, as if they are the victims some how (this is from brits I know who have moved there). The creation of Israel has caused untold misery for these people.

I ask you again; Can you declare someone’s land as your own?

But mate - that's the heart of the question - the Jews are indigenous to the land as well. More than 50% of them are Mizrahi for a start!

To understand perhaps where I come from on this matter, this is a group my wife and I have been involved with since it began, and similar groups before that.

(I'm reluctant to post links to some sites as a couple of times I've ended up with a nasty virus(!), but this one is okay.)

http://www.wasatiamovement.com/

I hope you'll have a look at it.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

But mate - that's the heart of the question - the Jews are indigenous to the land as well. More than 50% of them are Mizrahi for a start!

To understand perhaps where I come from on this matter, this is a group my wife and I have been involved with since it began, and similar groups before that.

(I'm reluctant to post links to some sites as a couple of times I've ended up with a nasty virus(!), but this one is okay.)

http://www.wasatiamovement.com/

I hope you'll have a look at it.

It’s a very dodgy argument, claiming lands from 2000 years ago. Can the indigenous people of USA, Australia and the like do the same despite it being only a few centuries since they were displaced?
Also, 50 % of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi with absolutely zero heritage in Palestine, they are literally squatting. This is always ignored in their reasoning btw

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

The wasatia site looks very good. I’ll have a good look when I get back

 

[BigMick]

To add to my post about refugee camps I forgot to include a bit of good news: two new towns are currently being built in Gaza, funded by th Egyptians and, I believe, Qatar. Both of them have a stake in Gaza ,of course.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

To add to my post about refugee camps I forgot to include a bit of good news: two new towns are currently being built in Gaza, funded by th Egyptians and, I believe, Qatar. Both of them have a stake in Gaza ,of course.

What sort of “stake”? There’s no financial benefits compared to their own economies

 

[BigMick]

It’s a very dodgy argument, claiming lands from 2000 years ago. Can the indigenous people of USA, Australia and the like do the same despite it being only a few centuries since they were displaced?
Also, 50 % of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi with absolutely zero heritage in Palestine, they are literally squatting. This is always ignored in their reasoning btw

If you want to get into demographics - a pointless discussion - there was massive migration in the region, including Palestine, throughout the centuries, with a lot in the 19th century. The clue to the origin to a lot of Palestinian families lies in their names.

Some examples are : al-Shakirat (Egypt), al-Djazair (Algeria) el-Kurd (Kurdistan), Zubeidi (Iraq), al-Mughrabi (Morocco), Haddad (Yemen), Alawi (Syria) etc.

In addition, all Palestinian clans see themselves as proud Arabs, descended from the most notable Arab tribes of the Hejaz (Saudi) or Yemen, with a few from Egypt, Syria and Kurdistan.

Some Palestinians have Bedouin roots -they roamed around the whole region including Egypt and modern day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria etc. As I'm sure you know the borders drawn up for the French and British mandates were artificial, just as the borders of the countries they created are artificial. A Lebanese man today in Tyre, is Lebanese only because the British and French agreed Tyre would be outside the British Mandate. A Gazan is Palestinian only because the British eventually decided, after a lot of debate, that the southern Negev towns should be cut off from Egypt.

Prior to the British Mandate the area was known in Arabic as al-Ard al-Muqadassa (the holy land), or Surya al-Janubiyya (southern Syria), never Palestine. It was the west that brought it back into use.

I'm loath to quote Hamas's Fathi Hammad but he once said:

"Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the north, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians; we are Arabs. We are Muslims. We are part of you. Egyptians! Personally, half my family is Egyptian - and the other half are Saudis."

There has always been a Jewish presence there throughout the last 2,000 years. You are aware that some of those Ashkenazi have married Mizrahi and had children, therefore I think we'll just have to call them Jews!

Does any of this affect the Palestinian people's right to their own state? Not in the least!

 

[BigMick]

What sort of “stake”? There’s no financial benefits compared to their own economies

Well Egypt have always had an interest in Gaza since they occupied it until 1967. They also see it as a way to re-establish themselves as the major power-brokers in the area, and curry favour with the Americans.

Qatar have funded the Hamas government for years. In contrast they oppose Fatah and the PA so give the West Bank nothing. A shame they couldn't spare a fraction of what they spent on the World Cup!

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

If you want to get into demographics - a pointless discussion - there was massive migration in the region, including Palestine, throughout the centuries, with a lot in the 19th century. The clue to the origin to a lot of Palestinian families lies in their names.

Some examples are : al-Shakirat (Egypt), al-Djazair (Algeria) el-Kurd (Kurdistan), Zubeidi (Iraq), al-Mughrabi (Morocco), Haddad (Yemen), Alawi (Syria) etc.

In addition, all Palestinian clans see themselves as proud Arabs, descended from the most notable Arab tribes of the Hejaz (Saudi) or Yemen, with a few from Egypt, Syria and Kurdistan.

Some Palestinians have Bedouin roots -they roamed around the whole region including Egypt and modern day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria etc. As I'm sure you know the borders drawn up for the French and British mandates were artificial, just as the borders of the countries they created are artificial. A Lebanese man today in Tyre, is Lebanese only because the British and French agreed Tyre would be outside the British Mandate. A Gazan is Palestinian only because the British eventually decided, after a lot of debate, that the southern Negev towns should be cut off from Egypt.

Prior to the British Mandate the area was known in Arabic as al-Ard al-Muqadassa (the holy land), or Surya al-Janubiyya (southern Syria), never Palestine. It was the west that brought it back into use.

I'm loath to quote Hamas's Fathi Hammad but he once said:

"Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the north, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians; we are Arabs. We are Muslims. We are part of you. Egyptians! Personally, half my family is Egyptian - and the other half are Saudis."

There has always been a Jewish presence there throughout the last 2,000 years. You are aware that some of those Ashkenazi have married Mizrahi and had children, therefore I think we'll just have to call them Jews!

Does any of this affect the Palestinian people's right to their own state? Not in the least!

I think it was you who bought demographics into this with your 50% comment tbh

There are maps going back 500 years with “Palestina” in situ. Again, it’s another Israeli pushed idea that they weren’t ever really there. It’s a lie

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Well Egypt have always had an interest in Gaza since they occupied it until 1967. They also see it as a way to re-establish themselves as the major power-brokers in the area, and curry favour with the Americans.

Qatar have funded the Hamas government for years. In contrast they oppose Fatah and the PA so give the West Bank nothing. A shame they couldn't spare a fraction of what they spent on the World Cup!

Unfortunately, Egypt have also sold out and bowed to Israeli pressures.
Palestine are rapidly running out of friends