Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state
- Thread starter Billy Dean
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Luke Jay
Player Valuation: £500k
wouldn't be surprised if she was bumped off for saying this. The democrats are playing a dangerous game.
There use to be a republican senator, Jim Traficant who strongly spoke out against funding Israel and he died in a tractor accident.
Patton also died in mysterious circumstances not too long after the war was over.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
Finally, the rickety coalition government in Israel has collapsed with new elections likely to take place in October.
The government did well to last as long as it did, just over a year at the moment.
Yair Lapid to become interim Prime Minister.
Bennett's political future looks bleak.
However, as with all things in Israeli politics, nothing is certain until the Knesset votes. Elections may not happen. Lapid may not become prime minister - those on the right of the coalition will not be keen. Netanyahu still has a week to rustle up a right-wing coalition and avert elections and some within the coalition will not fancy new elections.
The government did well to last as long as it did, just over a year at the moment.
Yair Lapid to become interim Prime Minister.
Bennett's political future looks bleak.
However, as with all things in Israeli politics, nothing is certain until the Knesset votes. Elections may not happen. Lapid may not become prime minister - those on the right of the coalition will not be keen. Netanyahu still has a week to rustle up a right-wing coalition and avert elections and some within the coalition will not fancy new elections.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
Two incidents which were headline news in Palestine a couple of weeks ago - I suspect they haven't been reported over here.
First, a Hamas bomb factory,and weapons cache was discovered by Palestinian security service following an explosion in a workshop just outside Ramallah in the West Bank. Tunnels heading towards some PA government buildings were also found and 19 Hamas operatives arrested.
There were many theories about when they were going to launch their attack against the PA but the most popular theory is that they would wait for Mahmoud Abbas to hand over power due to illness (strongly rumoured) or when he dies - there were rumours that he was at death's door - disproved when he made a telephone call to some organisation which was broadcast live on tv. The theory suggests that Hamas would try to exploit the power vacuum following Abbas's death, disguising the attack as part of a popular uprising. Something to watch out for when the day eventually arrives.
Second, the media spent the good part of a week poking fun at Hamas following a shootout between Hamas security forces and Bedouin villagers in the north of Gaza.
Hundreds of Hamas security officers raided a Bedouin village to destroy several houses as part of the terror group's attempt to evict residents from the area. Hamas claims that the village was illegally built on "state-owned" land (The village was established nearly 80 years ago). Hamas want the land for various projects and to give to their employees in lieu of unpaid wages. There are 28 more villages slated for demolition on the pretext that they were illegally built on public lands.
The security forces violently assaulted women, young people and the elderly, in addition to shooting directly at them, after they stood in front of bulldozers that were trying to demolish houses at the entrance to the village. Villagers then attacked the security forces, resulting in at least 25 villagers being injured , eight of them from gunfire, while at least one Hamas officer was injured. Ambulances were prevented from transporting the injured, who were instead taken in civilian cars. 85 villagers were later arrested.
The West Bank media gleefully pointed out the hypocrisy of Hamas in attacking the Palestinian Bedouin living under its control, having spent the last 12 months portraying themselves as defenders of the Bedouin in Israel and the West Bank.
I find it hard to believe the western correspondents ensconced in Jerusalem are unaware of these and similar incidents. It seems they are only interested when Israel are involved. Sadly, by turning a blind eye they will allow Hamas to continue to commit violence against their fellow Palestinians without the world noticing or caring.
First, a Hamas bomb factory,and weapons cache was discovered by Palestinian security service following an explosion in a workshop just outside Ramallah in the West Bank. Tunnels heading towards some PA government buildings were also found and 19 Hamas operatives arrested.
There were many theories about when they were going to launch their attack against the PA but the most popular theory is that they would wait for Mahmoud Abbas to hand over power due to illness (strongly rumoured) or when he dies - there were rumours that he was at death's door - disproved when he made a telephone call to some organisation which was broadcast live on tv. The theory suggests that Hamas would try to exploit the power vacuum following Abbas's death, disguising the attack as part of a popular uprising. Something to watch out for when the day eventually arrives.
Second, the media spent the good part of a week poking fun at Hamas following a shootout between Hamas security forces and Bedouin villagers in the north of Gaza.
Hundreds of Hamas security officers raided a Bedouin village to destroy several houses as part of the terror group's attempt to evict residents from the area. Hamas claims that the village was illegally built on "state-owned" land (The village was established nearly 80 years ago). Hamas want the land for various projects and to give to their employees in lieu of unpaid wages. There are 28 more villages slated for demolition on the pretext that they were illegally built on public lands.
The security forces violently assaulted women, young people and the elderly, in addition to shooting directly at them, after they stood in front of bulldozers that were trying to demolish houses at the entrance to the village. Villagers then attacked the security forces, resulting in at least 25 villagers being injured , eight of them from gunfire, while at least one Hamas officer was injured. Ambulances were prevented from transporting the injured, who were instead taken in civilian cars. 85 villagers were later arrested.
The West Bank media gleefully pointed out the hypocrisy of Hamas in attacking the Palestinian Bedouin living under its control, having spent the last 12 months portraying themselves as defenders of the Bedouin in Israel and the West Bank.
I find it hard to believe the western correspondents ensconced in Jerusalem are unaware of these and similar incidents. It seems they are only interested when Israel are involved. Sadly, by turning a blind eye they will allow Hamas to continue to commit violence against their fellow Palestinians without the world noticing or caring.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
A proposal to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict which received plenty of publicity in Egypt and Jordan a few weeks ago, but none in Palestine.
Nothing new in the ideas proposed but the source of the article is what makes it newsworthy, plus some of the language used.
The author is a Saudi journalist closely linked to Crown Prince Mohamed Bin Salman.
https://english.alarabiya.net/in-translation/2022/06/08/The-Hashemite-Kingdom-of-Palestine
To give the article some context, only one MENA country now provides financial support to the PA - Algeria - while Qatar and Iran provide support for Hamas. In addition, Arab state funding for UNRWA, the Palestinian refugee agency, has fallen by 90%.
Nothing new in the ideas proposed but the source of the article is what makes it newsworthy, plus some of the language used.
The author is a Saudi journalist closely linked to Crown Prince Mohamed Bin Salman.
https://english.alarabiya.net/in-translation/2022/06/08/The-Hashemite-Kingdom-of-Palestine
To give the article some context, only one MENA country now provides financial support to the PA - Algeria - while Qatar and Iran provide support for Hamas. In addition, Arab state funding for UNRWA, the Palestinian refugee agency, has fallen by 90%.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
With Biden visiting Jerusalem there is a new Palestinian opinion poll of Arab residents of East Jerusalem.
If there was a 2 state solution, which citizenship would you choose?
48% ISRAEL
43% PALESTINE
9% JORDAN (1st time Jordan has been given as an answer)
It would be better to be part of Israel than in PA or Hamas ruled lands.
64% Agree
36% Disagree
Palestinians should move to a new intifada and make armed struggle their top priority.
61% Disagree
36% Agree
Do you think attacks on any Israeli civilians, including settlers, are a good thing or bad?
68% Bad
30% Good
Palestinians should encourage direct personal contacts and dialogue with Israelis.
84% Agree.
16% Disagree
Palestinians needs to pay much more attention to countering extremist Islamic trends in our own society.
60% Agree
38% Disagree
Palestinians should focus on practical matters like education, jobs, healthcare etc rather than resistance or big political plans
62% Agree
37% Disagree
The answer to one other question was revealing.
I worry that Israel wants to destroy al-Aqsa mosque and harm our religion
69% Strongly agree
30% Disagree
That only proves just how effective a constant diet of lies and misinformation, in this case for 100 years, can be.
Of all the answers the only surprise for me was the Jordan answer, while the most pleasing was the 84% who want direct contacts and dialogue, which around 10% higher than I thought it would be.
I post in on here because I doubt whether these results will be publicised by the various organisations involved in the lucrative and dishonest human rights industry and therefore will not receive any coverage from their friends in the western media.
If there was a 2 state solution, which citizenship would you choose?
48% ISRAEL
43% PALESTINE
9% JORDAN (1st time Jordan has been given as an answer)
It would be better to be part of Israel than in PA or Hamas ruled lands.
64% Agree
36% Disagree
Palestinians should move to a new intifada and make armed struggle their top priority.
61% Disagree
36% Agree
Do you think attacks on any Israeli civilians, including settlers, are a good thing or bad?
68% Bad
30% Good
Palestinians should encourage direct personal contacts and dialogue with Israelis.
84% Agree.
16% Disagree
Palestinians needs to pay much more attention to countering extremist Islamic trends in our own society.
60% Agree
38% Disagree
Palestinians should focus on practical matters like education, jobs, healthcare etc rather than resistance or big political plans
62% Agree
37% Disagree
The answer to one other question was revealing.
I worry that Israel wants to destroy al-Aqsa mosque and harm our religion
69% Strongly agree
30% Disagree
That only proves just how effective a constant diet of lies and misinformation, in this case for 100 years, can be.
Of all the answers the only surprise for me was the Jordan answer, while the most pleasing was the 84% who want direct contacts and dialogue, which around 10% higher than I thought it would be.
I post in on here because I doubt whether these results will be publicised by the various organisations involved in the lucrative and dishonest human rights industry and therefore will not receive any coverage from their friends in the western media.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
Israel's decision to designate 6 Palestinian NGOs as terrorist organisations has been debated in the UN this week and was widely reported in the western media. Unfortunately, the standard of reporting was predictably shallow, consisting merely of allegations, denials and counter-allegations. For those interested here is some information that may help the fair-minded, rather than those who automatically take one side, to decide whether they think there is any substance to Israel's allegations.
Israel makes two allegations:
1. "The organisations operate under the guise of performing humanitarian activities to further the goals of the PFLP terrorist organisation, to strengthen the organisation and to recruit operatives.”
2, “They also assist in raising funds for the terrorist organisation via a variety of methods that include forgery and fraud.”
The PFLP are an internationally designated terrorist organisation whose armed wing has been responsible for terrorist attacks including plane hijacking, bombs in restaurants and synagogues, on buses, and roadsides, including the 2019 murder of an Israeli schoolgirl committed by two PFLP operatives, both employed by one of the accused NGOs. Their stated aim is the destruction of the state of Israel and the foundation of a Palestinian state 'from the river to the sea'.
Many years ago I was required to read the charters of various Palestinian political parties, including the PFLP. It wasn't a riveting read, being an outdated mixture of Marxism, Maoism, and nationalism, with a bit of racism thrown in (the denial of Jewish history).What it makes clear, though, is that the PFLP has three wings, an armed wing, led by the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, a political wing that runs in elections, and a social wing which includes civil society activities and NGOs. It's a similar set up to Hamas, minus the Islamism.
As well as the terror crimes listed above the armed wing has also participated in all the Hamas-inspired bombing campaigns, and the recent Islamic Jihad one, which even Hamas refused to support. The charter makes it clear that both the political and social wings are subservient to the armed wing, and no-one can be a member of either of those wings without supporting the activities of the armed wing, be it bombing or terror attacks. It underlines that all the activities of those wings are meant to strengthen the PFLP and its aims, and to persuade people to join or support the party, whether that's through political campaigning, the work of NGOs or through small social events such as summer camps for children or foodbanks for the needy.
Regarding the first Israeli claim, nobody serious denies the links between the NGOs and the PFLP, not even those who defend them from the charges. Even the PFLP admit the links and that they even founded two of the NGOs. It is undeniable that more than 75 senior members of the NGOs, including chairmen, directors, and financial directors are members and supporters of the PFLP, while many more are employed at lower levels. Some of those 75 have publicly commemorated the anniversaries of terror attacks and praised the terrorists. Several members of the NGOs ran as PFLP candidates in the recent local elections.
Instead, defenders of the NGOs claim that the links are irrelevant and do not affect the work of the NGOs. They argue that the NGOs are not responsible for the beliefs or individual actions of any former and current employees - while some employees may have been terrorists that does not make the organisations themselves terrorist organisations.
Regarding the high number of PFLP activists/supporters they suggest that almost every Palestinian has some sort of political affiliation, and so there are bound to be political activists in any organisation. Regardless of whether that is true or not, the biggest and most widely supported party by far remains Fatah, and no NGO is 'under attack' because it has Fatah members, because Fatah is not an internationally designated terror organisation. The 2nd biggest party is Hamas with the PFLP the 3rd biggest, but trailing a long way behind the other two.
Defenders also claim that this is really an Israeli attack on Palestinian civil society. However, there are around 110 similar civil society NGOs, most of them, like the accused NGOs, in receipt of funding from Western governments, as well as from, in some cases, Qatar and Iran and from individuals and dubious organisations. None of those NGOs are currently 'under attack'.
Regarding the second Israeli claim, there is certainly a lot of money sloshing around but I do not believe that Israel has the evidence to show money received by the NGOs going directly into the coffers of the PFLP. There is reputed to be evidence - which has to remain secret to protect its sources - that supposedly shows linkage, but if the evidence was substantial enough I would have thought the Israelis would have made arrests and brought charges against individuals.
Given the links between the NGOs are clear, were no secret and had been known about for years, my questions for the Israeli government remains the same as it did when the designations were originally announced in October: Why now? What changed? What is the new evidence?
Without that new evidence it remains, to me at least, a case of individual choice whether it's acceptable for well funded, supposedly non-political NGOs to operate when they are run by members and supporters of a terror group sworn to the destruction of Israel. Do the political affiliations of their leaders and members affect the work they do in civil society? Is that often short-term work more important than the long-term aims of the PFLP and its supporters?
The European counties that are continuing their financial support of the NGOs have decided the links don't matter or aren't substantial enough. A former Israeli security chief was probably correct when he suggested they have a different criteria when it comes to the judgement: the threats and dangers of a terror attack look very different viewed from Paris or London than they do from Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.
Israel makes two allegations:
1. "The organisations operate under the guise of performing humanitarian activities to further the goals of the PFLP terrorist organisation, to strengthen the organisation and to recruit operatives.”
2, “They also assist in raising funds for the terrorist organisation via a variety of methods that include forgery and fraud.”
The PFLP are an internationally designated terrorist organisation whose armed wing has been responsible for terrorist attacks including plane hijacking, bombs in restaurants and synagogues, on buses, and roadsides, including the 2019 murder of an Israeli schoolgirl committed by two PFLP operatives, both employed by one of the accused NGOs. Their stated aim is the destruction of the state of Israel and the foundation of a Palestinian state 'from the river to the sea'.
Many years ago I was required to read the charters of various Palestinian political parties, including the PFLP. It wasn't a riveting read, being an outdated mixture of Marxism, Maoism, and nationalism, with a bit of racism thrown in (the denial of Jewish history).What it makes clear, though, is that the PFLP has three wings, an armed wing, led by the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, a political wing that runs in elections, and a social wing which includes civil society activities and NGOs. It's a similar set up to Hamas, minus the Islamism.
As well as the terror crimes listed above the armed wing has also participated in all the Hamas-inspired bombing campaigns, and the recent Islamic Jihad one, which even Hamas refused to support. The charter makes it clear that both the political and social wings are subservient to the armed wing, and no-one can be a member of either of those wings without supporting the activities of the armed wing, be it bombing or terror attacks. It underlines that all the activities of those wings are meant to strengthen the PFLP and its aims, and to persuade people to join or support the party, whether that's through political campaigning, the work of NGOs or through small social events such as summer camps for children or foodbanks for the needy.
Regarding the first Israeli claim, nobody serious denies the links between the NGOs and the PFLP, not even those who defend them from the charges. Even the PFLP admit the links and that they even founded two of the NGOs. It is undeniable that more than 75 senior members of the NGOs, including chairmen, directors, and financial directors are members and supporters of the PFLP, while many more are employed at lower levels. Some of those 75 have publicly commemorated the anniversaries of terror attacks and praised the terrorists. Several members of the NGOs ran as PFLP candidates in the recent local elections.
Instead, defenders of the NGOs claim that the links are irrelevant and do not affect the work of the NGOs. They argue that the NGOs are not responsible for the beliefs or individual actions of any former and current employees - while some employees may have been terrorists that does not make the organisations themselves terrorist organisations.
Regarding the high number of PFLP activists/supporters they suggest that almost every Palestinian has some sort of political affiliation, and so there are bound to be political activists in any organisation. Regardless of whether that is true or not, the biggest and most widely supported party by far remains Fatah, and no NGO is 'under attack' because it has Fatah members, because Fatah is not an internationally designated terror organisation. The 2nd biggest party is Hamas with the PFLP the 3rd biggest, but trailing a long way behind the other two.
Defenders also claim that this is really an Israeli attack on Palestinian civil society. However, there are around 110 similar civil society NGOs, most of them, like the accused NGOs, in receipt of funding from Western governments, as well as from, in some cases, Qatar and Iran and from individuals and dubious organisations. None of those NGOs are currently 'under attack'.
Regarding the second Israeli claim, there is certainly a lot of money sloshing around but I do not believe that Israel has the evidence to show money received by the NGOs going directly into the coffers of the PFLP. There is reputed to be evidence - which has to remain secret to protect its sources - that supposedly shows linkage, but if the evidence was substantial enough I would have thought the Israelis would have made arrests and brought charges against individuals.
Given the links between the NGOs are clear, were no secret and had been known about for years, my questions for the Israeli government remains the same as it did when the designations were originally announced in October: Why now? What changed? What is the new evidence?
Without that new evidence it remains, to me at least, a case of individual choice whether it's acceptable for well funded, supposedly non-political NGOs to operate when they are run by members and supporters of a terror group sworn to the destruction of Israel. Do the political affiliations of their leaders and members affect the work they do in civil society? Is that often short-term work more important than the long-term aims of the PFLP and its supporters?
The European counties that are continuing their financial support of the NGOs have decided the links don't matter or aren't substantial enough. A former Israeli security chief was probably correct when he suggested they have a different criteria when it comes to the judgement: the threats and dangers of a terror attack look very different viewed from Paris or London than they do from Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
The deadline for submitting party lists for the 1st November Israeli elections was a day of high drama as the Arab Joint List split at the last minute. Ahead of the last elections, the alliance lost one of its four partners when Ra’am under Mansour Abbas decided to run on its own ticket. This time, Balad decided to run alone. Now only Hadash and Ta’al will run together under the name of the Joint List.
This will be the 6th election in less than 4 years - turnout overall is expected to be down as voter fatigue sets in, with many likely to follow the example of ex-PM Naftali Bennett and sit this one out. Recent surveys also predict a record low turnout for Arab voters, with one of the main reasons being the interminable feud between the member parties of the Joint List over Knesset seats. Despite this the trigger for the latest split was a dispute over the 6th spot on the list, which Balad claimed had been reserved for them.
The 120 seats in the Knesset are elected by a closed list proportional representation system. The electoral threshold for the election is 3.25%. Smaller parties that struggle to pass the threshold frequently merge to form one list so that their combined votes are enough to win seats.
Therefore the split of the Joint List could have devastating implications for the number of Arab lawmakers in the next Knesset, as Balad faces a real risk of failing to pass the vote threshold. The polls suggest that the new Joint List would muster 4 seats, the same as Ra'am, which means there would be only 8 representatives, down from 10 last time, and way down from the 15 the 4 party Joint List reached in 2020 when they were the 3rd largest list in the Knesset. The failure of that grouping to achieve anything tangible for its constituents led to Ra'am's defection at the last election.
The failure of Balad to pass the threshold means the votes for them would be wasted and, as they are part of the anti-Netanyahu block, this would increase the prospects of Bibi being able to cobble together enough seats to form a right-wing government. Typically, he has been able to persuade several small right-wing groups to merge, thus ensuring they will pass the threshold. Yair Lapid, in contrast, failed to convince the leader of the Labor party to merge with left-wing Meretz, and the Joint List split has likely dealt him a further blow.
There is some talk that, unencumbered by Balad, the Joint List would be prepared to follow the example of Ra'am and join a future Lapid government, but that would be a remarkable volte-face after they spent the last 12 months criticising and doing all they could to undermine the efforts of Ra'am.
Netanyahu remains favourite to be the next PM but it will be very tight, coming down to one seat either way, barring any dramatic events in the next month or so.
This will be the 6th election in less than 4 years - turnout overall is expected to be down as voter fatigue sets in, with many likely to follow the example of ex-PM Naftali Bennett and sit this one out. Recent surveys also predict a record low turnout for Arab voters, with one of the main reasons being the interminable feud between the member parties of the Joint List over Knesset seats. Despite this the trigger for the latest split was a dispute over the 6th spot on the list, which Balad claimed had been reserved for them.
The 120 seats in the Knesset are elected by a closed list proportional representation system. The electoral threshold for the election is 3.25%. Smaller parties that struggle to pass the threshold frequently merge to form one list so that their combined votes are enough to win seats.
Therefore the split of the Joint List could have devastating implications for the number of Arab lawmakers in the next Knesset, as Balad faces a real risk of failing to pass the vote threshold. The polls suggest that the new Joint List would muster 4 seats, the same as Ra'am, which means there would be only 8 representatives, down from 10 last time, and way down from the 15 the 4 party Joint List reached in 2020 when they were the 3rd largest list in the Knesset. The failure of that grouping to achieve anything tangible for its constituents led to Ra'am's defection at the last election.
The failure of Balad to pass the threshold means the votes for them would be wasted and, as they are part of the anti-Netanyahu block, this would increase the prospects of Bibi being able to cobble together enough seats to form a right-wing government. Typically, he has been able to persuade several small right-wing groups to merge, thus ensuring they will pass the threshold. Yair Lapid, in contrast, failed to convince the leader of the Labor party to merge with left-wing Meretz, and the Joint List split has likely dealt him a further blow.
There is some talk that, unencumbered by Balad, the Joint List would be prepared to follow the example of Ra'am and join a future Lapid government, but that would be a remarkable volte-face after they spent the last 12 months criticising and doing all they could to undermine the efforts of Ra'am.
Netanyahu remains favourite to be the next PM but it will be very tight, coming down to one seat either way, barring any dramatic events in the next month or so.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
The rise of Itamar Ben Gvir makes him the most dangerous man in Israel. Brought into the Knesset by the conniving of Netanyahu for purely cynical reasons, he is now part of a Party List that opinion polls suggest will win between 8 and 12 seats at the next election. Netanyahu has persuaded Ben Gvir, both at this election and the previous one, to merge his party with another right-wing one to ensure they pass the election threshold, even though the two party leaders cannot stand each other.
It's believed Netanyahu promised Ben Gvir a place in his government in return for agreeing the merger.
Ben Gvir has lately been said to have deliberately watered down his extremist beliefs and statements in an effort to appeal to a larger swath of right-wing Israelis while avoiding anti-racism laws: under Article 7A of the Basic Law: The Knesset, “incitement to racism” is one of three actions that can disqualify a candidate.
However, this skit of him on an Israeli TV show is very funny even if you don't know any Hebrew. It's based on Springtime for Hitler, although neither Hitler nor Nazis are explicitly mentioned.
A whining Netanyahu starts off by saying, “Who will bring the votes and save me from the law?” - a reference to his ongoing criminal trial.
Enter Ben Gvir framed by the fascist-like symbol of Kach, the once-banned and now-defunct political party of the late racist rabbi Meir Kahane, of whom Ben Gvir is a disciple. The character is surrounded by dancers and singers wearing large knitted head coverings associated with the religious settlement movement, and T-shirts branded with the logos of extremist organisations such as Kach, Lehava and La Familia. The bulk of Ben Gvir's support comes from youthful right-wing settlers.
"It’s time for Ben Gvir… it’s time for Otzma Yehudit” and “Kahane for the whole family,” the Ben Gvir impersonator croons.
Ben Gvir details his ostensible plans once he gains power, singing “We’ll throw the Arabs and the lefties out, we’ll turn Al-Aqsa into a parking lot, we’ll put the gays back in the closet.”
Supporting dancers mime a train as the group sings of putting “judges in the carriages” - an image that for many Israelis will conjure up the Nazi trains taking people to their deaths.
It's great that political satire is alive and well in Israel. I doubt such a hard-hitting skit would be allowed in the UK during an election campaign, and as for a similar attack on Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank, or Haniyeh and Sinwar in Gaza, I doubt the actors/ writers/director/cameramen would be seen again!
It's believed Netanyahu promised Ben Gvir a place in his government in return for agreeing the merger.
Ben Gvir has lately been said to have deliberately watered down his extremist beliefs and statements in an effort to appeal to a larger swath of right-wing Israelis while avoiding anti-racism laws: under Article 7A of the Basic Law: The Knesset, “incitement to racism” is one of three actions that can disqualify a candidate.
However, this skit of him on an Israeli TV show is very funny even if you don't know any Hebrew. It's based on Springtime for Hitler, although neither Hitler nor Nazis are explicitly mentioned.
A whining Netanyahu starts off by saying, “Who will bring the votes and save me from the law?” - a reference to his ongoing criminal trial.
Enter Ben Gvir framed by the fascist-like symbol of Kach, the once-banned and now-defunct political party of the late racist rabbi Meir Kahane, of whom Ben Gvir is a disciple. The character is surrounded by dancers and singers wearing large knitted head coverings associated with the religious settlement movement, and T-shirts branded with the logos of extremist organisations such as Kach, Lehava and La Familia. The bulk of Ben Gvir's support comes from youthful right-wing settlers.
"It’s time for Ben Gvir… it’s time for Otzma Yehudit” and “Kahane for the whole family,” the Ben Gvir impersonator croons.
Ben Gvir details his ostensible plans once he gains power, singing “We’ll throw the Arabs and the lefties out, we’ll turn Al-Aqsa into a parking lot, we’ll put the gays back in the closet.”
Supporting dancers mime a train as the group sings of putting “judges in the carriages” - an image that for many Israelis will conjure up the Nazi trains taking people to their deaths.
It's great that political satire is alive and well in Israel. I doubt such a hard-hitting skit would be allowed in the UK during an election campaign, and as for a similar attack on Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank, or Haniyeh and Sinwar in Gaza, I doubt the actors/ writers/director/cameramen would be seen again!
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
I recently spent 4 days in Jericho as part of our family holiday. Jericho is a main holiday destination for West Bank Palestinians and we stayed in a villa belonging to my brother-in-law at the new Jericho Gate development. While there are some family homes, a lot of the properties there seem to be holiday homes for expats, wealthy Palestinians, or Israelis - Arabs that is: No Jews Allowed.
While we were there just one incident dominated the headlines - an interview given by the Governor of Nablus, Ibrahim Ramadan. The interview was a response to the growing influence of a recently formed paramilitary group in Nablus, known as Areen al-Usud (The Lions’ Den), who have attempted to emulate a similar group who have taken over Jenin from the PA security force, and Hebron where criminal groups have done the same. Funded by Iran via Hezbollah, the group has ostensibly been set up to fight the Israelis but, led by Islamic Jihad and Hamas operatives, the undermining and downfall of the PA is another aim, while many also suspect criminal motives. Understandably, the ordinary citizens of Nablus do not want to be policed by a gang of masked gunmen and they have been pleading with the PA to reassert control before it is too late.
Ramadan said things in the interview seldom heard from any Palestinian political leader. Unfortunately, he distracted from his message by criticising the one group that leads to political backtracking all over the world - mothers - even if there was some validity in what he said.
“A mother is someone who shows affection and tenderness, but there are some abnormal mothers who send their sons to commit suicide and then show themselves to be ‘resistance’ by celebrating their deaths. These are not mothers. No mother sends her son to his death.”
Cue outrage by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP, as well as the usual political activists, while there was predicable silence from the cowardly PA leadership.
What Ramadan was criticising was the cult of martyrdom. He would have been better criticising the UNRWA schools which promote martyrdom as an ideal and his own organisation, the PA, which names schools and competitions after 'martyrs' who have committed heinous crimes, and his own party, Fatah, for heaping praise on such people.
“I fear for the lives of these resistance fighters. They don’t know the true value of their lives, they undervalue human life."
He called on Palestinians engaged in armed resistance against Israel to surrender their weapons to the Palestinian Authority.
“There should be no weapons apart from Palestinian Authority weapons. If they hand over their arms, we will protect them. We have no problem. We can reach a solution with the other side (Israel)." He even offered them jobs in the PA security force - provided they've not been involved criminal activities.
He described armed resistance as futile and 'inappropriate', and added that the PA will not allow a small group of gunmen to drag the Palestinians into a major confrontation with Israel.
“The family members have been warned that the activities of their sons could cause Israel to launch a large-scale military operation in Nablus, where many people will be killed or injured. The goal is to end the phenomenon of the Lions' Den in order to avoid a disaster in Nablus.”
It's believed Israel agreed with the PA to mount no operations in Nablus for 2-3 weeks in order to give the PA time to do the job they should have been doing all along according to the Oslo Accords - stamping out any paramilitary activity. That period has now ended.
As a side note the PA reluctantly released the latest crime figures which showed that murders in the West Bank have risen by an alarming 29% in the last year. It's no coincidence that the city with the highest murder rate was Hebron, followed by Jenin and Nablus. Jericho was bottom with no murders. The police attributed the rise to incitement to violence on social media, and the impunity enjoyed by some perpetrators due to family and clan cover - similar to the situation in the Israeli Arab community.
There was one other incident in Nablus when a Jewish woman and her young children were captured by the Lions' Den, surrounded by a crowd who called for her to be handed over to the PA security. They in turn handed her over to the IDF who, after questioning, revealed she had entered Nablus - which like Jericho and all major towns and cities operates a No Jews Allowed policy - to go shopping with her Palestinian fiancé. He was last heard of being held for questioning by the Lions' Den.
While we were in Jericho my wife took part in a march of several hundred women belonging to the Women of the Sun movement, which is a partner of the more established Israeli group, Women Wage Peace. Founded in 2021 by a small but courageous group of Palestinian women, they campaign for an end to the conflict and for negotiations to start for a just and comprehensive peace for both nations. In little over a year thousands of women have joined the movement, some of them mothers who have lost sons in the conflict. Unsurprisingly, they were generally in agreement with the Governor of Nablus.
While we were there just one incident dominated the headlines - an interview given by the Governor of Nablus, Ibrahim Ramadan. The interview was a response to the growing influence of a recently formed paramilitary group in Nablus, known as Areen al-Usud (The Lions’ Den), who have attempted to emulate a similar group who have taken over Jenin from the PA security force, and Hebron where criminal groups have done the same. Funded by Iran via Hezbollah, the group has ostensibly been set up to fight the Israelis but, led by Islamic Jihad and Hamas operatives, the undermining and downfall of the PA is another aim, while many also suspect criminal motives. Understandably, the ordinary citizens of Nablus do not want to be policed by a gang of masked gunmen and they have been pleading with the PA to reassert control before it is too late.
Ramadan said things in the interview seldom heard from any Palestinian political leader. Unfortunately, he distracted from his message by criticising the one group that leads to political backtracking all over the world - mothers - even if there was some validity in what he said.
“A mother is someone who shows affection and tenderness, but there are some abnormal mothers who send their sons to commit suicide and then show themselves to be ‘resistance’ by celebrating their deaths. These are not mothers. No mother sends her son to his death.”
Cue outrage by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP, as well as the usual political activists, while there was predicable silence from the cowardly PA leadership.
What Ramadan was criticising was the cult of martyrdom. He would have been better criticising the UNRWA schools which promote martyrdom as an ideal and his own organisation, the PA, which names schools and competitions after 'martyrs' who have committed heinous crimes, and his own party, Fatah, for heaping praise on such people.
“I fear for the lives of these resistance fighters. They don’t know the true value of their lives, they undervalue human life."
He called on Palestinians engaged in armed resistance against Israel to surrender their weapons to the Palestinian Authority.
“There should be no weapons apart from Palestinian Authority weapons. If they hand over their arms, we will protect them. We have no problem. We can reach a solution with the other side (Israel)." He even offered them jobs in the PA security force - provided they've not been involved criminal activities.
He described armed resistance as futile and 'inappropriate', and added that the PA will not allow a small group of gunmen to drag the Palestinians into a major confrontation with Israel.
“The family members have been warned that the activities of their sons could cause Israel to launch a large-scale military operation in Nablus, where many people will be killed or injured. The goal is to end the phenomenon of the Lions' Den in order to avoid a disaster in Nablus.”
It's believed Israel agreed with the PA to mount no operations in Nablus for 2-3 weeks in order to give the PA time to do the job they should have been doing all along according to the Oslo Accords - stamping out any paramilitary activity. That period has now ended.
As a side note the PA reluctantly released the latest crime figures which showed that murders in the West Bank have risen by an alarming 29% in the last year. It's no coincidence that the city with the highest murder rate was Hebron, followed by Jenin and Nablus. Jericho was bottom with no murders. The police attributed the rise to incitement to violence on social media, and the impunity enjoyed by some perpetrators due to family and clan cover - similar to the situation in the Israeli Arab community.
There was one other incident in Nablus when a Jewish woman and her young children were captured by the Lions' Den, surrounded by a crowd who called for her to be handed over to the PA security. They in turn handed her over to the IDF who, after questioning, revealed she had entered Nablus - which like Jericho and all major towns and cities operates a No Jews Allowed policy - to go shopping with her Palestinian fiancé. He was last heard of being held for questioning by the Lions' Den.
While we were in Jericho my wife took part in a march of several hundred women belonging to the Women of the Sun movement, which is a partner of the more established Israeli group, Women Wage Peace. Founded in 2021 by a small but courageous group of Palestinian women, they campaign for an end to the conflict and for negotiations to start for a just and comprehensive peace for both nations. In little over a year thousands of women have joined the movement, some of them mothers who have lost sons in the conflict. Unsurprisingly, they were generally in agreement with the Governor of Nablus.
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
For @bluestevon
Not wishing to derail the Ukraine thread, here are the most obvious reasons why the tragic situation in Ukraine is not the same as the ongoing tragedy in Palestine, and explains why no western country will take the action you requested. I'm sure there are others that agree with you. I'll try to keep it short!
1. Russia launched an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, a sovereign democracy, in order to place it or part of it, under Russian influence.
There has never been a Palestinian state and Israel has never invaded Palestinian territory. Israel conquered the West Bank from Jordan in a defensive war in 1967. Jordan had siezed that territory in 1948 and, instead of declaring a Palestinian State, renamed it the West Bank (as opposed to the east bank which was Jordan), and illegally annexed it in 1949 - only the UK and Pakistan recognised their right. In the same war Israel took Gaza from Egypt. They ruled over both directly until they and the PLO negotiated the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994. The complicated patchwork of self-rule and shared control in the West Bank is the result of the Oslo II agreement of 1995. Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
2. Ukraine has never declared that Russia was illegitimate and had no right to exist.
Israel recognises the right of the Palestinian people to their own state. Unfortunately in 2000 Arafat rejected an offer brokered by Bill Clinton which would have seen the creation of an independent Palestinian state on 94-96% of the West Bank with additional compensation from a land swap with Israel of 1-3%, and 100% of Gaza. Then, in 2008, Abbas rejected an even better offer - veteran Palestinian negotiator was so stunned by the refusal he later leaked the details to the world's press. Unlike Arafat, Abbas did have an excuse: the civil war which would have broken out with Hamas, who by then had seized control of Gaza, if he had accepted it. In addition, have a look at the 1947 UN Partition Plan which Israel accepted and the Palestinians rejected - Israel even smaller than it was pre-1967.
On the other hand, most Palestinian factions reject the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state in the historical homeland of the Jewish people.The Palestinian Authority still rejects the notion of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.
3. Ukraine had not launched thousands of rockets on Russian cities or threatened to erase Russia off the map. Palestinians launched 4,500 rockets at Israel during the last Israel-Gaza war in May- I'd need a calculator to work out the overall number.
4. Ukraine had not encouraged terrorist attacks against Russian civilians in Russia.
Palestinians are regularly incited by their political and religious leaders to carry out terror attacks in Israel - blowing up buses or restaurants, shootings, knifings, or hacking people to death with axes while they are sat outside a cafe, as happened earlier this year.
I have no desire to exonerate Israel or to defend many of their actions or decisions (or inaction and non-decisions), especially in the years since 2008. But all the above are facts which have to be faced up to, no matter how inconvenient they may be.
The Palestinians have been appallingly led since before 1948. Israel, too, has been appallingly led, certainly since 2008 (although I reserve judgement on Yair Lapid and hope he gets longer.)
I want to see a Palestinian state as much as I'm sure you do - for personal reasons it's probably closer to my heart than it is to yours. That's why I keep writing about it!
I'll end with the thinnest slither of good news. 14 Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, signed a reconciliation deal in Algiers on Thursday, vowing to hold elections by next October. As 2008 showed there can be no hope of any meaningful settlement with Israel unless there is a united Palestinian voice negotiating with full authority. That's the main reason why the cancellation of last year's elections was such a disaster. We've been here many times before and I'm sceptical they will happen this time but we might get a clue if Hamas tone down their anti-PA rhetoric and alter their course of action in the West Bank in the coming weeks.
Not wishing to derail the Ukraine thread, here are the most obvious reasons why the tragic situation in Ukraine is not the same as the ongoing tragedy in Palestine, and explains why no western country will take the action you requested. I'm sure there are others that agree with you. I'll try to keep it short!
1. Russia launched an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, a sovereign democracy, in order to place it or part of it, under Russian influence.
There has never been a Palestinian state and Israel has never invaded Palestinian territory. Israel conquered the West Bank from Jordan in a defensive war in 1967. Jordan had siezed that territory in 1948 and, instead of declaring a Palestinian State, renamed it the West Bank (as opposed to the east bank which was Jordan), and illegally annexed it in 1949 - only the UK and Pakistan recognised their right. In the same war Israel took Gaza from Egypt. They ruled over both directly until they and the PLO negotiated the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994. The complicated patchwork of self-rule and shared control in the West Bank is the result of the Oslo II agreement of 1995. Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
2. Ukraine has never declared that Russia was illegitimate and had no right to exist.
Israel recognises the right of the Palestinian people to their own state. Unfortunately in 2000 Arafat rejected an offer brokered by Bill Clinton which would have seen the creation of an independent Palestinian state on 94-96% of the West Bank with additional compensation from a land swap with Israel of 1-3%, and 100% of Gaza. Then, in 2008, Abbas rejected an even better offer - veteran Palestinian negotiator was so stunned by the refusal he later leaked the details to the world's press. Unlike Arafat, Abbas did have an excuse: the civil war which would have broken out with Hamas, who by then had seized control of Gaza, if he had accepted it. In addition, have a look at the 1947 UN Partition Plan which Israel accepted and the Palestinians rejected - Israel even smaller than it was pre-1967.
On the other hand, most Palestinian factions reject the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state in the historical homeland of the Jewish people.The Palestinian Authority still rejects the notion of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.
3. Ukraine had not launched thousands of rockets on Russian cities or threatened to erase Russia off the map. Palestinians launched 4,500 rockets at Israel during the last Israel-Gaza war in May- I'd need a calculator to work out the overall number.
4. Ukraine had not encouraged terrorist attacks against Russian civilians in Russia.
Palestinians are regularly incited by their political and religious leaders to carry out terror attacks in Israel - blowing up buses or restaurants, shootings, knifings, or hacking people to death with axes while they are sat outside a cafe, as happened earlier this year.
I have no desire to exonerate Israel or to defend many of their actions or decisions (or inaction and non-decisions), especially in the years since 2008. But all the above are facts which have to be faced up to, no matter how inconvenient they may be.
The Palestinians have been appallingly led since before 1948. Israel, too, has been appallingly led, certainly since 2008 (although I reserve judgement on Yair Lapid and hope he gets longer.)
I want to see a Palestinian state as much as I'm sure you do - for personal reasons it's probably closer to my heart than it is to yours. That's why I keep writing about it!
I'll end with the thinnest slither of good news. 14 Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, signed a reconciliation deal in Algiers on Thursday, vowing to hold elections by next October. As 2008 showed there can be no hope of any meaningful settlement with Israel unless there is a united Palestinian voice negotiating with full authority. That's the main reason why the cancellation of last year's elections was such a disaster. We've been here many times before and I'm sceptical they will happen this time but we might get a clue if Hamas tone down their anti-PA rhetoric and alter their course of action in the West Bank in the coming weeks.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Cheers for the reply mate and taking it away from the other thread to the proper place (didn't know the thread existed tbh) I'm trying to catch up in a lot of posts here now in between lessons, but will give my thoughts on stuff later - besides having several Anglo and Russian Jewish friends I'll stick my hands up and say I've no 'dog in the fight' personally unlike some so respect their opinions/viewpoints and perspective a lot
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
The riots in East Jerusalem have rightly been widely reported in the last few days but as usual only a partial picture is given with no follow up. I watched some of the scenes with feelings of revulsion, frustration and anger but it dawned on me that what I was watching reminded me of football hooliganism in the 1970s and 80s, with most of the perpetrators being in their teens or early twenties, charging and retreating and hurling projectiles at each other. All very sad. all very pathetic, and while there is without doubt a political element involved - the original riots were coordinated and encouraged by groups from elsewhere - the thing it really brings home to me are the failures in Israel's education system for all its citizens, Jew and Arab, given that most of the Arab rioters would have been educated in Israeli funded schools, even if many in East Jerusalem follow a Palestinian curriculum.
As sad as the scenes were, the impression given by some of the reports that Jerusalem was teetering on the brink of meltdown is false. The rioting was confined to a handful of flashpoint areas and the number of people involved was small. Most ordinary people simply got on with their lives. At the height of the trouble more than 40,000 peaceful worshippers attended Friday prayers at Al Aqsa, with no sign of unrest, no chanting for Mohammed Deif or Sinwar, no paramilitary banners, no gangs of youths stockpiling weapons - they were likely involved in the rioting.
At the same time the Jewish festival of Sukkot was underway which involves thousands making a pilgrimage to Jerusalem which involved a similar number praying peacefully at the Western Wall. Sadly the PA interpreted this as Jews performing "racist Talmudic rituals", a statement as antisemitic as it is inflammatory.
One person watching the riots unfurl on television was an infuriated Itamar Ben Givr. He immediately tweeted his dismay at watching the police struggling to calm the situation by persuading Arab rioters to leave the area rather than arresting them, adding. "The time has come to support our policemen to mow down the enemy, and I am now on my way to the place to protect the Jewish residents."
His TV fan club thus notified he duly turned up a few minutes later where, keeping several hundred yards from the trouble, hiding behind a truck and cocooned by a newly arrived phalanx of policemen, he pulled out his gun and brandished it around, no doubt well aware of all the cameras trained upon him. After fulminating for a few minutes he then retreated, his job done, publicity garnered, and all done while just staying inside the line of inciting violence or racism. He's a dangerous man with his eyes on a much bigger prize than a mere seat in the Knesset or even a job in a Netanyahu government, which he would see as a stepping-stone.
To end positively I recommend this article that shines a light on the work of a wonderful organisation Kids4Peace.
blogs.timesofisrael.com
As sad as the scenes were, the impression given by some of the reports that Jerusalem was teetering on the brink of meltdown is false. The rioting was confined to a handful of flashpoint areas and the number of people involved was small. Most ordinary people simply got on with their lives. At the height of the trouble more than 40,000 peaceful worshippers attended Friday prayers at Al Aqsa, with no sign of unrest, no chanting for Mohammed Deif or Sinwar, no paramilitary banners, no gangs of youths stockpiling weapons - they were likely involved in the rioting.
At the same time the Jewish festival of Sukkot was underway which involves thousands making a pilgrimage to Jerusalem which involved a similar number praying peacefully at the Western Wall. Sadly the PA interpreted this as Jews performing "racist Talmudic rituals", a statement as antisemitic as it is inflammatory.
One person watching the riots unfurl on television was an infuriated Itamar Ben Givr. He immediately tweeted his dismay at watching the police struggling to calm the situation by persuading Arab rioters to leave the area rather than arresting them, adding. "The time has come to support our policemen to mow down the enemy, and I am now on my way to the place to protect the Jewish residents."
His TV fan club thus notified he duly turned up a few minutes later where, keeping several hundred yards from the trouble, hiding behind a truck and cocooned by a newly arrived phalanx of policemen, he pulled out his gun and brandished it around, no doubt well aware of all the cameras trained upon him. After fulminating for a few minutes he then retreated, his job done, publicity garnered, and all done while just staying inside the line of inciting violence or racism. He's a dangerous man with his eyes on a much bigger prize than a mere seat in the Knesset or even a job in a Netanyahu government, which he would see as a stepping-stone.
To end positively I recommend this article that shines a light on the work of a wonderful organisation Kids4Peace.
In a tense Jerusalem, an inside look at the city’s youth movement for peace
On an organization that equips young Israelis and Palestinians to build trust and confront a generational conflict together
blogs.timesofisrael.com
Toffeeslam
Player Valuation: £40m
Israel has also rejected peace proposals from the Palestinian/Arab side to which also gets lost in the mix especially in western circles as it benefits Israel’s narrative.
The Saudi peace proposal was signed by every member of the Arab league meaning Israel would have instant peace with all of its neighbours however they rejected it in it’s entirety and didn’t even counter propose or negotiate.
The idea that rejectionists are only Palestinian is a convenient myth that pro Israelis peddle all the time but instead we get this one sided narrative that the Palestinians are the obstacle to peace when in fact BOTH sides are culpable
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
You're quite right. I was simply pointing out the differences between this conflict and Ukraine, using the most obvious examples and not trying to give a comprehensive history, which would have taken several pages!
The Arab proposal was certainly a huge and very welcome turnaround from the Khartoum declaration of the 'Three Noes' - no peace, no recognition, no negotiations with Israel.
Israel, of course, had no input into the proposals, and unfortunately the initiative came at the height of the 2nd intifada, a disaster to which most of today's problems can be traced back, and which meant the Israelis viewed the proposals more negatively than they might otherwise have done. In fact 30 Israelis were blown up by a suicide bomber in a hotel on the day the proposal was announced. Without all that it could have formed the basis for negotiations.
The proposal called for Israel to completely withdraw from the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights. One of them has happened, to much acclaim at the time. The other two never will - that's the reality that most people now accept. In fact, such is the lack of trust between the two sides I doubt we'll see an equivalent to either of the offers rejected by Arafat and Abbas.
Incidentally, I think there's a chance Abbas may have accepted the plan Arafat rejected, had he been leader at the time.
As woeful as the Trump Peace Plan was - which was why it was another thing I didn't mention - it could also have served as a starter for negotiations. Just as Israel had no input into the Arab plan, neither did the Palestinians have any say in the Trump plan. But as former Palestinian Prime Minister Salaam Fayyed (one of the few competent leaders they have ever had) said at the time, real leadership would have countered with their own plan, including a domestic political reform plan. It most likely wouldn't have got anywhere, including the domestic plan, but at least they couldn't be accused of rejectionism.
Imo the 1967 borders should be the starting point for negotiations, once the Palestinians have solved their domestic disunity and, as a precursor to talks, agreed to Israel's right to exist as a home for the Jewish people, and Israel reaffirm their recognition of the right of the Palestinian people to have their own state. Until then any negotiations would be doomed to fail yet again.
Anyway, I'm sure all this has been discussed before!!
- Status