Initial 10, then reduced to 6 + 2 Point Deductions

msb said:
People seem to be forgetting that we pleaded guilty to the charges, so we are not without sin.

What needs to be discussed is only the disparity on the levels of punishment. PL claimed that a fine was unsuitable for clubs with wealthy owners, it had to be a points deduction.

Our letter should ask what has changed, because undoubtedly the Chelsea owners are as rich as rich can be.

Moreover, during due diligence, they made a provision of £150 million for such fines and/or misdemeanours, so surely the fine should have been at that level, if the non- points deduction has any merit, which it does not.

Furthermore, how much income did they get for Champions League participation during the cheat period? Significantly more than the £150 mill, never mind the relatively low fine now levied.

None of this stands the slightest scrutiny, little wonder many fans see the PL as corrupt. Even if they don’t change Chelsea’s fine, there must be change at the PL if they are to hold any credibility as an organisation.

Where is the Football Regulator in all this?
Click to expand...
Not forgetting there is a clear precedent for points deductions for off the books payments…10 points deduction for Luton.

When Everton breached PSR levels there was no precedent so the IC used Sheffield Wednesday from the EFL and some obscure European team as examples of where a “sporting advantage” must lead to a sporting sanction.

What’s changed?
 
WestStandLower said:
Obviously being a Chelsea supporter I was thankful that we got.. well not much. But until the FA commission reports we won’t know for sure just what the final tally is . In some quarters it’s suggested the biggest sanction will flow from the FA charges and again it’s being suggested that could well be sporting sanctions.

Reading the PL sanctions agreement it’s pretty obvious that the fact that none of the “ Off the books payments” were funded from a Chelsea bank account worked to our benefit. Also the fact that as it states in that agreement the fact that the PL hadn’t been able to interview the likes of Abramovich (RA) nor were they in a position to force individuals no longer involved in football to assist meant quite simply that they weren’t confident that any PL case put before an IC would result in such an IC finding against the club particularly if the new owners weren’t willing to sign the matter off by way of a sanction agreement.

Put another way the new owners agreed, for the purposes of a conclusion, that the monies paid from a number of RA companies were for the benefit of the club but the inference is that position would not be agreed if there were to be a full IC hearing.

What we haven’t seen, nor will it be put in the public domain is the full report and conclusions the disciplinary process has reached and which in turn would have provided a detailed background to the IC members who then signed off the sanctions agreement.

Yep we have got off lightly that’s for sure
Click to expand...
In the bin with you and your party line.

If there was no benefit you wouldn't have been doing it.

Sling yer hook
 
msb said:
People seem to be forgetting that we pleaded guilty to the charges, so we are not without sin.

What needs to be discussed is only the disparity on the levels of punishment. PL claimed that a fine was unsuitable for clubs with wealthy owners, it had to be a points deduction.

Our letter should ask what has changed, because undoubtedly the Chelsea owners are as rich as rich can be.

Moreover, during due diligence, they made a provision of £150 million for such fines and/or misdemeanours, so surely the fine should have been at that level, if the non- points deduction has any merit, which it does not.

Furthermore, how much income did they get for Champions League participation during the cheat period? Significantly more than the £150 mill, never mind the relatively low fine now levied.

None of this stands the slightest scrutiny, little wonder many fans see the PL as corrupt. Even if they don’t change Chelsea’s fine, there must be change at the PL if they are to hold any credibility as an organisation.

Where is the Football Regulator in all this?
Click to expand...
A large part of this was due to us taking on debt to fund the stadium build tbf
 
msb said:
People seem to be forgetting that we pleaded guilty to the charges, so we are not without sin.

What needs to be discussed is only the disparity on the levels of punishment. PL claimed that a fine was unsuitable for clubs with wealthy owners, it had to be a points deduction.

Our letter should ask what has changed, because undoubtedly the Chelsea owners are as rich as rich can be.

Moreover, during due diligence, they made a provision of £150 million for such fines and/or misdemeanours, so surely the fine should have been at that level, if the non- points deduction has any merit, which it does not.

Furthermore, how much income did they get for Champions League participation during the cheat period? Significantly more than the £150 mill, never mind the relatively low fine now levied.

None of this stands the slightest scrutiny, little wonder many fans see the PL as corrupt. Even if they don’t change Chelsea’s fine, there must be change at the PL if they are to hold any credibility as an organisation.

Where is the Football Regulator in all this?
Click to expand...
As I said in my earlier post until the FA commission publishes their sanction be it a fine or indeed sporting sanction it’s impossible to fully quantify just how much of the £150m the process has cost because there will be a significant cost in terms of legal representation, sums paid to HMRC . To date in fines it’s been around £20m probably double that in terms of other costs.

I did find it interesting, surprising even that the PL went to great lengths to point out that by all their calculations ( I bet it was Chelsea that put together those numbers) that even if the monies said to be off book then Chelsea wouldn’t have breached PSR limits. That I guess was their attempt to counter any sporting advantage claims. Not sure that has worked.

Chelsea fine won’t change. It’s binding and there isn’t provision in the PL rules to allow it to be challenged. Irrespective I somehow doubt that no matter what the PL hasn’t been able to prove positive that any of the contracts that matched the payments were illegal nor without BlueCo agreeing would they have been able to even reach the standard of proof required, as mad as that may seem.

As for the regulator internal matters of this sort aren’t within their area of responsibility.
 
Drico said:
I can't help feeling this is only being done now to ward off the Burnley threat...

Even so, about bloody time. What a gang of simps we have had running this club for too long.
Click to expand...
No doubt the new owners are looking at like this. They’ve inherited a club with sporting sanctions that could lead to £50m bill versus a club who’ve had a fine and had the clearest of on the pitch advantages….players and winning trophies

Whether we can sue them or not remains to be seen. We can certainly make things very messy and reopen judgements around entitlement to compensation….which don’t forget in PL rules you aren’t allowed to sue each other!
 
WestStandLower said:
As I said in my earlier post until the FA commission publishes their sanction be it a fine or indeed sporting sanction it’s impossible to fully quantify just how much of the £150m the process has cost because there will be a significant cost in terms of legal representation, sums paid to HMRC . To date in fines it’s been around £20m probably double that in terms of other costs.

I did find it interesting, surprising even that the PL went to great lengths to point out that by all their calculations ( I bet it was Chelsea that put together those numbers) that even if the monies said to be off book then Chelsea wouldn’t have breached PSR limits. That I guess was their attempt to counter any sporting advantage claims. Not sure that has worked.

Chelsea fine won’t change. It’s binding and there isn’t provision in the PL rules to allow it to be challenged. Irrespective I somehow doubt that no matter what the PL hasn’t been able to prove positive that any of the contracts that matched the payments were illegal nor without BlueCo agreeing would they have been able to even reach the standard of proof required, as mad as that may seem.

As for the regulator internal matters of this sort aren’t within their area of responsibility.
Click to expand...
I found this very surprising too. It was almost like they tried to pacify the football world because of the differences in punishment between Everton, Forest and Chelsea.
I’ve no problem with any other club, but I absolutely despise Masters and his glitterati.
They are only interested in Liverpool and Man U. They are the PL pound signs.
The rest of us are just useful idiots.
 
Iana said:
Not forgetting there is a clear precedent for points deductions for off the books payments…10 points deduction for Luton.

When Everton breached PSR levels there was no precedent so the IC used Sheffield Wednesday from the EFL and some obscure European team as examples of where a “sporting advantage” must lead to a sporting sanction.

What’s changed?
Click to expand...
That’s why I say till the FA case is resolved we won’t know the final outcome if for no other reason it was the FA that ordered the 10 point Luton deduction suffered for off the book payments

Interestingly Spurs successfully appealed a 12 point deduction in the mid 90s for financial irregularities again awarded from the FA they , Spurs did also receive a significant fine which was increased .

I believe that Luton didnt appeal their points deduction but there was a view that had they done so and argued the Spurs precedent then they would have had the 10 points returned and revived a significant fine but Lutons other indiscretions that season had already led to a further 20 point deduction add to that they were not in a position to pay any sort of fine let alone a big one due to administration
 
Listened to Simon Jordan talking about us looking in to this whole malarkey. Now I quite like his opinion, most of the time and he's a far more intelligent man than me, but what he spewed out was utter crap. Maybe I've got it wrong but to me he talked rubbish.
 
WestStandLower said:
Guess you don’t understand the difference that it would have made if the payments had been made by the club as opposed to third party entities
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There’s no need for that.

The payments were made by businesses owned by Chelsea’s owner. The payments were facilitated by senior executives at Chelsea Football Club who must have acted as a conduit for it to happen.

Or, are you trying to tell us all that all of these “off the books” payments were only known to Abramovich who dealt directly with all the agents and players involved and no other club personnel were involved?
 
Seathestars said:
I found this very surprising too. It was almost like they tried to pacify the football world because of the differences in punishment between Everton, Forest and Chelsea.
I’ve no problem with any other club, but I absolutely despise Masters and his glitterati.
They are only interested in Liverpool and Man U. They are the PL pound signs.
The rest of us are just useful idiots.
Click to expand...
I do wonder if our new owners insisted in such a comments inclusion.

Having read the sanctions agreement a couple of times I genuinely believe that us self reporting took the wind out the PL sails as it were because if they went too hard punishment wise then no club would ever in the future self report. Why would they if there isn’t any major mitigation or advantage from so doing?

My view is , based on the wording in that sanctions agreement is that we will get a significant sanction from the FA along with a fine. The fine will be significant +£50 million and there will be a sporting sanction probably not a points deduction but more than likely a transfer ban
 
Iana said:
There’s no need for that.

The payments were made by businesses owned by Chelsea’s owner. The payments were facilitated by senior executives at Chelsea Football Club who must have acted as a conduit for it to happen.

Or, are you trying to tell us all that all of these “off the books” payments were only known to Abramovich who dealt directly with all the agents and players involved and no other club personnel were involved?
Click to expand...

According to the sanctions agreement none of those that could offer “ context” to the payments did so you would assume that was because they refused and weren’t under the PLs or FAs jurisdiction.

I very much doubt that it was just RA acted alone but that’s the point the payments all came from third party entities so almost certainly they were facilitated by officials of RAs companies and not view club officials / officers .None of the payments went directly to players
 

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