If no-one else is going to say it

[Maestro Haze]

To be honest that fact that Martinez has worked with Kone before makes me wonder about him...I'm mystified on how this player is worth $1 let alone 5mil GBP....

Alcaraz is NOT a good signing on a free -- wages and a signing on fee, coupled with the fact that Heitinga and Stones are competing with him means we have now 5 first team centre backs (ignoring Duffy)....which other team has so many ?

The point with the forwards is buy selling say Jelavic and adding the Kone fee we could have purchased a decent forward....likewise Anichebe and Osman could easily have been shifted out and replacements brought in.

Just seems like a total waste of money to me.

You've missed my main point, it's about squad depth.

We've lacked it for years, plus the emerging Barkley and Stones have helped the squad, especially the former.

Alcaraz is a good signing because he's a good player, he's probably our best CB at passing it out of defence, someone Martinez wanted to bring in.

Because of him I'd agree Heitinga should of been sold, but because of his wages it's difficult for us to offload him, plus he'd go for nearly nothing as he's in the final year of his contract. Also £10m (Kone and Jelavic) still won't get you a top goalscorer.
Unless it's Michu of course.

 

[Mogwai]

This Tiki - Taka nonsense is ridiculous.

I'm lost as to how keeping the ball with a deep midfield and short passing is going to win football matches? If the striker is totally isolated then you may as well just stick an 8ft giant up front and lump it up to him...little short passes gets you nowhere.

ANY inferior side to us can simply stick men behind the ball and wait for 'Zidane' (Osman) to pick their defence apart, in reality it isn't going to happen when they can defend in numbers.

The comments I made previously about these new signings (other than the loan which I wasn't negative about) are now making a bit more sense, Kone is a total donkey and NEVER a first choice striker....if he was and bearing In mind Martinez signed him, then why isn't he starting in front of or alongside jelavic ? TOTAL waste of money, Alcaraz signing on fee and wages are worthless for an injury prone player who, if Heitinga stays means were wasting money on one of them....

We are literally Liverpool without Suarez, I was critical of his signings but I assumed Martinez would initiate some of the attacking play we had under Moyes at times.

At this rate we'll be the best passers in the league over 6 yards....and no 7th place trophy.

Like this........

[video=youtube;lGuaQ1khn2k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGuaQ1khn2k[/video]

They don't need a Zidane to break down teams, it is a team effort based on simple principles executed perfectly.... Granted it takes a lot of practice, but it is possible....

 

[sportbillyblue]

as before .. the tika taka stuff would be more effective if we had greater mobility upfront which Kone and Gerard can offer and I think demonstrated yesterday. It's getting tapped sidewards and backwards becos Jelavic and Mirallas are not offering much of an outlet. We're also playing with 10 men when defending as the opposition run past Osman as if he wasn't there (if he's going to start then it shouldn't be in the DCM / CM role).

Jelavic has to go, he's shown no signs of being capable of fitting in any system, I think even Vellios would be more effective, Vic for sure. Kone will drop deep, provide a sensible outlet, can hold the ball and run with it also. Then once their defence have been dragged all over the shop bring Vic on to batter them. Easy peasy innit ?

Even consider Heitinga instead of Osman, he will tackle at least and perhaps give some leadership and drive from the DCM rolem which he showed signs of being able to do pre-season.

Martinez has to wake up and quick, we should be sitting on a minimum 7 points now, realistically 9 but we're not and the difficult games will be on us soon.

 

[Zatara]

You've missed my main point, it's about squad depth.

We've lacked it for years, plus the emerging Barkley and Stones have helped the squad, especially the former.

Alcaraz is a good signing because he's a good player, he's probably our best CB at passing it out of defence, someone Martinez wanted to bring in.

Because of him I'd agree Heitinga should of been sold, but because of his wages it's difficult for us to offload him, plus he'd go for nearly nothing as he's in the final year of his contract. Also £10m (Kone and Jelavic) still won't get you a top goalscorer.
Unless it's Michu of course.

I think I was focusing on the point to be honest;

We have the following centre backs;

Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga, Alcaraz, Stones, Duffy.

You want squad depth but this is a total waste of wages/signing on fees and should be trimmed to add more cash to the kitty.

Jelavic, Kone, Anichebe -- NONE of them is going to scare the opposition. the huge cash wasted on the centre back position and these forwards should have been recycled into signing a forward.


The central midfield without Fellaini looks very weak as well......

Very poor squad balance.

 

[Sideliner]

don't just laugh at UNBEATEN -
Martinez achieved in his first season what Moyes could only do twice in 11 YEARS - being UNBEATEN after 3 games -
in 4 of those 11 years Moyes also managed to lose 2 out of the first 3 - in 2010 we lost 2 and drew 1 -
so relax and don't panic - early days still

 

[Christiffa25]

I'm not a tika taka or whatever fan tbh, as I feel the only side that can do that with big success is barca and that's because of the world class players they have doing it (even if its been combated somewhat recently) BUT I really think we'v been unlucky as hell these first 3 weeks and should be be comftably on 6-9 points if we had a clinical striker!

I'd also say IMO (surprisingly) RM has not gone all out change the style to tika taka at all costs, he's doing it slowly in relatively small doses, which is the sensible way. Our direct (at times) style last season wielded just as many frustrating draws, and IMO last and this season so far boils down to one major thing....the lack of a top quality striker!

 

[Moomin]

don't just laugh at UNBEATEN -
Martinez achieved in his first season what Moyes could only do twice in 11 YEARS - being UNBEATEN after 3 games -
in 4 of those 11 years Moyes also managed to lose 2 out of the first 3 - in 2010 we lost 2 and drew 1 -
so relax and don't panic - early days still

I'll get the bunting out to celebrate.

 

[Quim]

I think I was focusing on the point to be honest;

We have the following centre backs;

Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga, Alcaraz, Stones, Duffy.

You want squad depth but this is a total waste of wages/signing on fees and should be trimmed to add more cash to the kitty.

Jelavic, Kone, Anichebe -- NONE of them is going to scare the opposition. the huge cash wasted on the centre back position and these forwards should have been recycled into signing a forward.


The central midfield without Fellaini looks very weak as well......

Very poor squad balance.

You wanna get some medication mate. The new manager has had 4 games, the new striker 1, and your suicidal.

Everyone was terrified of the goals we'd concede and we have looked solid. Have you never heard of start at the back?

We've introduced a 19 year old kid. It's going to take him 6 months before we see him in full flow.

Hes signed a keeper to keep Howard on his toes and finally he looks like he's playing well.

He looks like he's fended off utd for Baines, the previous manager would never have done this. He would have sold and sulked.

He's got 24m for someone who is nowhere near good enough as a defensive midfielder were he wants to play. I know people will argue with that but in my opinion he doesn't have the concentration. Top player further forward by the way. Only now can he shape his squad because he's had **** all help from the board.

Iv got me reservations and worries but to carry on like this when were still in August is bang out of order. Anyone would think he took over a successful side, as much as Moyes and the media would have you believe this, we wernt. Try lookin at the glass half full for a change mate.

 

[mythbuster]

Again this. It's great having five midfielders tapping it about 35-40 yards away from goal, but all the opposition do is let us and laugh while they pack two men on the striker and wait for the inevitable mistake when someone tries to break through from midfield to attack and the Hollywood pass is intercepted.

You ever gonna support an EVERTON manager, lad?

 

[Zatara]

You wanna get some medication mate. The new manager has had 4 games, the new striker 1, and your suicidal.

Everyone was terrified of the goals we'd concede and we have looked solid. Have you never heard of start at the back?

We've introduced a 19 year old kid. It's going to take him 6 months before we see him in full flow.

Hes signed a keeper to keep Howard on his toes and finally he looks like he's playing well.

He looks like he's fended off utd for Baines, the previous manager would never have done this. He would have sold and sulked.

He's got 24m for someone who is nowhere near good enough as a defensive midfielder were he wants to play. I know people will argue with that but in my opinion he doesn't have the concentration. Top player further forward by the way. Only now can he shape his squad because he's had **** all help from the board.

Iv got me reservations and worries but to carry on like this when were still in August is bang out of order. Anyone would think he took over a successful side, as much as Moyes and the media would have you believe this, we wernt. Try lookin at the glass half full for a change mate.

How about the 6 centre backs ?
Osman Barkley Gibson as the only centre mids (each have major problems)
Forwards all being useless

You'd have thought he'd have done something about this but hes added to the issues...

 

[caught]

Not too downbeat about our start, tbh. We've geniunely been unlucky not to win our three games so far.

The only real problem with the changes in our style is that so far Jelavic and Mirallas aren't providing the movement necessary. Jelavic makes runs but they're often terrible, and when he drops deep to help out a player in a tight situation (usually because he didn't have the forethought to provide himself as an outlet sooner) we're left with nobody in the box. And let's not even get into his total inability to hold up the ball. I can't see him starting much more in this system.

Mirallas doesn't seem to know his role at all, and Martinez will need to figure out a way of utilizing his talents or simply drop him from the starting eleven. Because our tempo is slower he's waiting a lot longer to receive the ball and it's clearly something he's not used to.

I honestly think these are teething problems, though, and, despite feeling a bit of frustration and seeing neat moves break down against teams who sit with nine men behind the ball, I'm hopeful we'll improve over the season. If Whittaker hadn't sliced a shot directly onto van Wolfswinkel's head, Fellaini had shot 3cm further to the left, and that bulb of a ref had given either of the clear penalties yesterday then we'd be top of the league today. I know we can play the hypothetical game all day, but for me those signs are encouraging.

 

[Timak]

I Remember watching the Arsenal when Arsene wenger first took over. They were absolutely rubbish because they were going from a defensive style to a more attacking style. We are unbeaten currently and given time we'll be able to attack with more speed when they get used to the new style of play and all the players come back, like Gibson.

Your memory is playing tricks on you.

They finished third in the league after Wenger took over and won the double the year after.

Incidentally league table for that year shows how money has corrupted the game.

Champions had 75 points and 2nd-4th all had 68 points. Would have been enough points for 4th-6th-7th-8th in the league this time around.

 

[Quim]

How about the 6 centre backs ?
Osman Barkley Gibson as the only centre mids (each have major problems)
Forwards all being useless

You'd have thought he'd have done something about this but hes added to the issues...

Where's your 6 centre backs? Duffy and Stones are kids who arnt ready for a full season who will be playing mainly under 21 football, when stones comes through one will be pushed on.

Where do you want him to magic money up from to buy a midfielder? This is a problem that Moyes left not Martinez created. Once he has the Fellaini money tomorrow it looks like McCarthy and Barry will sign. I know McCarthy hasn't been well received on here but I think the kid is going to be a top player. He will protect Barkley all day long and let him play.

Forwards, again he inherited the problem of Jelavic and Anichebe, Moyes hasn't had strikers scoring in 11 years and you want Martinez to rectify this in 4 games? That's just unfair criticism. Il reserve judgement on Kone until he's actually had afew run outs.

Do you want him to completely turn over a squad in 8 weeks so its how he wants it? That's ridiculous mate.

I don't know what you do for a living but I tell you what mate, I bet you were still learning and putting you're stamp on it for a good 6 months. You would think we'd had 3 4 nil defeats the way your carrying on.

 

[rascal]

I don't think we'll be relegated, we'll be fine.

 

[allen]

We're still faring better than I'd feared.

I'm happy with a draw at Cardiff after what they did to City. Promoted teams are always dangerous at home early in the season. Goals are a problem - but that's not really new. We seem more solid at the back than we did last season - and I honestly wasn't expecting that. We couldn't buy a clean sheet most of last season and now we've had two on the bounce.

I'm happy enough. It was always going to take a while.

Let's judge progress in January.