Current Affairs How old were you when you grew up and stopped voting Labour?

[magicjuan]

Thats an interesting question. Like you know, I am not an "Ist" of anything really, and I dont see the world as a battle between one "Ism" or another.

I do see a world, or rather, the UK, rightly or wrongly, that enables anyone with a Wifi link able to buy a jumper or some dog food at any time of the day, and then get it delivered in a few days time. I think thats a good thing. Customer gets what they want, all sorts of folk get paid through the delivery chain, all powered by capitalist concerns.

I do have more sympathy with the consumerism that envelops us though. And I guess that is part of your issue; the almost inevitable result of capitalism. But folk should grow a pair. Take responsibility for their own decisions, as long as there is a robust and funded safety net for those more vulnerable than most.

People generally do take responsibility, however when the employment market drives down that self ownersip with lowering wages that then need state subsidies, who actually controls that possibility?

 

[roydo]

People generally do take responsibility, however when the employment market drives down that self ownersip with lowering wages that then need state subsidies, who actually controls that possibility?

Well the State I guess. I would rather have a mix of both myself. A vibrant capitalist economy, with a well funded State controlled safety net/NHS, etc etc.

Basically, dont like/trust the State to be in control of everything. So cant really see any alternative to what we have rocked up with.

 

[Barkman]

Well the State I guess. I would rather have a mix of both myself. A vibrant capitalist economy, with a well funded State controlled safety net/NHS, etc etc.

Basically, dont like/trust the State to be in control of everything. So cant really see any alternative to what we have rocked up with.

You have to pick one or the other. Now

 

[roydo]

You have to pick one or the other. Now

What we have then.

 

[magicjuan]

In the context of so called developing countries, you will see many schools being ran by private entrepreneurs, although often within in a framework of government legislation. The fact is that in many cases, the state has simply proved itself to be incapable of providing an inclusive and extensive education system. It then falls upon members of the community, often parents, to set up small low fee private schools with the specific aim to provide education to the poorer segments of society.

Obviously there exists many critiques of the notion of mixing the market with what many consider to be a social need. however, I personally feel it exemplifies that we’re not all brain washed civilians working with a culture that rewards greed and exploitation. For many people, in a specific context, capitalism can help successfully provide goods and services,


.... up the toffees ?

That is often the case when state and entrepreneurial capitalism meet on a mutual project, wether to replace or supercede.
Capitalism does indeed provide goods and services, for profit primarily and long term for capitalism itself, it has little to no desire to invest in society or the infrastructures of society or pay contributions to the betterment of society, which actually, eventually, will be to the detriment of its own wellbeing.

Up the toffees indeed.

 

[magicjuan]

Something tells me you've already made up your mind

It isn't off the cuff. I've lived under a burgeoning capitalist system that has become unfettered and as a result has run roughshod over the most vulnerable. If the public are merely a commodity then how do people as individuals see others?

 

[roydo]

That is often the case when state and entrepreneurial capitalism meet on a mutual project, wether to replace or supercede.
Capitalism does indeed provide goods and services, for profit primarily and long term for capitalism itself, it has little to no desire to invest in society or the infrastructures of society or pay contributions to the betterment of society, which actually, eventually, will be to the detriment of its own wellbeing.

Up the toffees indeed.

It may not have a desire to directly invest in "good" things, though a string of trusts and foundations going back 100s of years suggest some Capitalists have a conscience, by making profits, they ergo contribute to the state coffers to fund said "good" things.

I think you dont like naked capitalism, who does, but to blanket the whole system as somehow immoral or just wrong, I honestly dont get.

 

[efcjames]

18

 

[roydo]

It isn't off the cuff. I've lived under a burgeoning capitalist system that has become unfettered and as a result has run roughshod over the most vulnerable. If the public are merely a commodity then how do people as individuals see others?

As individuals. Just cos Sainsburys and Lewis's reckon they can squeeze a few more bob out of folk at Christmas, doesnt mean that folk who partake in the system have to adhere to their morals. They just want tea, or a pressie.

 

[magicjuan]

Well the State I guess. I would rather have a mix of both myself. A vibrant capitalist economy, with a well funded State controlled safety net/NHS, etc etc.

Basically, dont like/trust the State to be in control of everything. So cant really see any alternative to what we have rocked up with.

At present that isn't viable. Until the majority can deal with the trap of society as it stands instead of being panicked half the time in survival mode, then those with capital will maintain the disparity, further it and make sure access to opportunity for all be prevented.

 

[magicjuan]

It may not have a desire to directly invest in "good" things, though a string of trusts and foundations going back 100s of years suggest some Capitalists have a conscience, by making profits, they ergo contribute to the state coffers to fund said "good" things.

I think you dont like naked capitalism, who does, but to blanket the whole system as somehow immoral or just wrong, I honestly dont get.

See it from a different perspective, think of capitalism as a religion, see how religion works and you understand how it exists as it does.

 

[roydo]

At present that isn't viable. Until the majority can deal with the trap of society as it stands instead of being panicked half the time in survival mode, then those with capital will maintain the disparity, further it and make sure access to opportunity for all be prevented.

Its been viable for ever. I get that you dont like the system, but where you seem to see a concerted manufacture of a system designed to keep the proles where they are, and run to the bank, I just see a developed economy and Parliament that should serve all in their mandate. By and large, it does.

Aint perfect like.

 

[roydo]

See it from a different perspective, think of capitalism as a religion, see how religion works and you understand how it exists as it does.

But most folk dont see it as a religion. They just use it to buy stuff.

 

[magicjuan]

But most folk dont see it as a religion. They just use it to buy stuff.

It is only viable if it serves all equally, it doesn't, it has gone from not caring about those less fortunate to targetting them and blaming them.
People exist in the system, they serve that system to exist. To them it may not appear to be a religion, but it walks like one, talks like one...most people weren't 'christians' until christianity enveloped them and gave them no choice.

 

[roydo]

It is only viable if it serves all equally, it doesn't, it has gone from not caring about those less fortunate to targetting them and blaming them.
People exist in the system, they serve that system to exist. To them it may not appear to be a religion, but it walks like one, talks like one...most people weren't 'christians' until christianity enveloped them and gave them no choice.

Isnt that a political decision though? Like, its not up to Microsoft to decide how the US should distribute its tax receipts.

But, assuming MS pay a few bob in tax, there is not a chance that they would have been invented by a state controlled economy.