Yes.
As soon as it started to become the David Moyes show, that should've been goodnight Irene.
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As soon as it started to become the David Moyes show, that should've been goodnight Irene.
toffee matt
Player Valuation: £60m
So around 2010 then , his attitude changed notably after the lescott saga. Employing that gormless [Poor language removed] steve round was also a massive black mark
Chang Elephant
Forum God
Particularly not on the wide open spaces of Wembley
sotnas
Player Valuation: £10m
Sheer class that first eleven. Oh that midfield was immense in creativity and flair.
How on earth could anyone make that team play football without hoofing the freaking ball???
If that wasn't a relegation battlers team, then the PL had, at the time, a pretty low level of quality...
BigDunc'sFod
Player Valuation: £35m
He is the Alan Curbishly of the 2010s
deipnosophist
Player Valuation: £80m
How long did Moyes hold us back for? is the question...5 years too long is the answer
deipnosophist
Player Valuation: £80m
...that might be unfair...let's say at least 3 years too long
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
For me (and I was part of the IMWT brigade), I think that it was time for him to go in 2011 ish. I think it was more to do with the negative substitutions, persistence with underperforming players, and unwillingness to give the youth a try that finally made me see the light.
He had some fantastic signings for us though and that cannot be overstated.
He was absolutely fantastic for us when he was hired and got us on solid footing again but in the end, it all got a bit stale and change was needed, for him, and for us.
He had some fantastic signings for us though and that cannot be overstated.
He was absolutely fantastic for us when he was hired and got us on solid footing again but in the end, it all got a bit stale and change was needed, for him, and for us.
In the last 4 years we finished 8th, 7th, 7th and 6th - basically we still finished above every club we realistically could but were shunted down the pecking order by the emergence of Manchester City and Tottenham. Only Villa (once with unsustainable spending) and Newcastle (once) outperformed us in that time.
We also went almost 2 years without a single first team signing before that whilst losing Arteta and Pienaar and not having a striker worthy of the name.
If he lost a bit of faith that we'd be able to break into the top 4 I think that feeling was shared by many on here.
In our last season with him in charge we saw the football improve vastly, think back to the start and end of last season. I don't buy into a theory we were on a downward trajectory or that he'd stayed too long.
Martinez has done brilliantly, and hopefully will take us to the "next level" but it would frankly be a modern miracle if we regularly finish in the top 4 without significant financial investment. I think Moyes deserved a chance to test himself at a level we can't compete at - it hasn't worked out but if he took over Villa/Newcastle they'd we right up with us within a season or two.
Royal Blue Jersey
Player Valuation: £35m
Without David Moyes' financial prudence we'd have been battling midtable mediocrity, it's as simple as that. We are a big club - in the history of English football, undoubtedly a huge club - but we have no divine right to achieve success, no innate quality to challenge at the top end of the table. Martinez has come in and told us that we do, and has opened our hearts more than anything to the glorious pedestal of our past, something that Moyes actively tried to play down or ignore. It's symptomatic of their contrasting approaches - the idealist and the realist, the fearless and the fearful. I was one of those advocating Martinez from the very start, I've always been a huge fan and thought we were incredibly blessed to have the opportunity to appoint him but people seem to forget, or perhaps not realise, it was and is just that: an incredible blessing. To follow up one manager so shrewd, astute and prudent financially with another is a blessing.
Money spent over time is the greatest indicator of likely success. You can't get away from that fact no matter how many expensive turkeys richer clubs have squandered money on - and there have been many - and from a purely financial perspective, we have been competing far beyond our means for years. Not only have we been able to buy quality cheap, but we haven't been reckless with what money we do have - not a compliment for Kenwright, because I mean of the money he gives our manager, small as it is, that pot was used wisely far more often than not - which is essential. IMO Moyes' worst signing was Fellaini, but we managed to get £27m for him. Biylaletdinov for £9m wasn't great, but we got enough to buy Jelavic - fastest player to score 10 goals for Everton since 1912, also sold for profit - we sold Kevin Kilbane, Marcus Bent, James McFadden, Andy Johnson, Jack Rodwell all fringe players for a profit. The list of quality cheap signings is incredible: Bent £450k, Cahill £1.7m, Arteta £2m, Pienaar £2m, Lescott £5m, Banes £5.5m, Jagielka £4m, Gibson £450k, Mirallas £5.5m, Coleman £60k, Stones £3.5m. An absolutely stunning list of bargains.
It makes it utterly immaterial whether Moyes was tactically inept or mentally questionable, because on that budget he would have been commended for getting Everton into the top 10. If he was finishing lower mid-table year on year then he'd rightly be open to some serious examination. But on that budget he got Everton challenging, since 2006, no lower than 8th. A couple of seasons in a row we managed 5th. On our budget that is incredible. You don't need me to argue that - just look at any of the stats for money spent over the last 10 years and look where Everton end up in that table, as opposed to the real one.
HOWEVER... those players were not overachieving. The squad he assembled finished at least where it should be finishing and, as we often vented, perhaps lower than where it should. We always cursed our bad starts and indifferent mid-seasons before a late rally. The team on its day could play wonderfully well in all departments, and could give you real hope for the future, only for that hope to be dashed before that future even came. What Martinez has proven is that these players could have been utilised better. Bargains as they were, they were such good bargains they had an even higher level to go to than Moyes could coax. In many ways, that makes him a victim of his own success. He built a team far beyond its means that was so well put together they eventually exposed his flaws. Perhaps it goes along with the weight of expectation and how we always bottled the big games; our teams performed best as the underdogs, maybe because if the 'plucky little Everton' tag got dropped for even a minute, it left open to attack what his stint at United has now shown to be glaring limitations. It probably annoys and annoyed Moyes more than anything that he could put together a superb set of players but could never quite utilise them properly. You can almost see him wanting to scream "YES, BUT I BOUGHT ALL THESE PLAYERS. YOU CAN CRITICISE ME ALL YOU LIKE, BUT WITHOUT ME, THEY WOULDN'T BE HERE". Maybe that ego is really his defence mechanism, the only way of trying to assert his worth in public. It's sad, and we should recognise his achievements with far more gratitude than we have done, but his dismissal from Man U is not entirely unjustified. He's just not been good enough. And at the very top managerial bracket, he never will be.
Money spent over time is the greatest indicator of likely success. You can't get away from that fact no matter how many expensive turkeys richer clubs have squandered money on - and there have been many - and from a purely financial perspective, we have been competing far beyond our means for years. Not only have we been able to buy quality cheap, but we haven't been reckless with what money we do have - not a compliment for Kenwright, because I mean of the money he gives our manager, small as it is, that pot was used wisely far more often than not - which is essential. IMO Moyes' worst signing was Fellaini, but we managed to get £27m for him. Biylaletdinov for £9m wasn't great, but we got enough to buy Jelavic - fastest player to score 10 goals for Everton since 1912, also sold for profit - we sold Kevin Kilbane, Marcus Bent, James McFadden, Andy Johnson, Jack Rodwell all fringe players for a profit. The list of quality cheap signings is incredible: Bent £450k, Cahill £1.7m, Arteta £2m, Pienaar £2m, Lescott £5m, Banes £5.5m, Jagielka £4m, Gibson £450k, Mirallas £5.5m, Coleman £60k, Stones £3.5m. An absolutely stunning list of bargains.
It makes it utterly immaterial whether Moyes was tactically inept or mentally questionable, because on that budget he would have been commended for getting Everton into the top 10. If he was finishing lower mid-table year on year then he'd rightly be open to some serious examination. But on that budget he got Everton challenging, since 2006, no lower than 8th. A couple of seasons in a row we managed 5th. On our budget that is incredible. You don't need me to argue that - just look at any of the stats for money spent over the last 10 years and look where Everton end up in that table, as opposed to the real one.
HOWEVER... those players were not overachieving. The squad he assembled finished at least where it should be finishing and, as we often vented, perhaps lower than where it should. We always cursed our bad starts and indifferent mid-seasons before a late rally. The team on its day could play wonderfully well in all departments, and could give you real hope for the future, only for that hope to be dashed before that future even came. What Martinez has proven is that these players could have been utilised better. Bargains as they were, they were such good bargains they had an even higher level to go to than Moyes could coax. In many ways, that makes him a victim of his own success. He built a team far beyond its means that was so well put together they eventually exposed his flaws. Perhaps it goes along with the weight of expectation and how we always bottled the big games; our teams performed best as the underdogs, maybe because if the 'plucky little Everton' tag got dropped for even a minute, it left open to attack what his stint at United has now shown to be glaring limitations. It probably annoys and annoyed Moyes more than anything that he could put together a superb set of players but could never quite utilise them properly. You can almost see him wanting to scream "YES, BUT I BOUGHT ALL THESE PLAYERS. YOU CAN CRITICISE ME ALL YOU LIKE, BUT WITHOUT ME, THEY WOULDN'T BE HERE". Maybe that ego is really his defence mechanism, the only way of trying to assert his worth in public. It's sad, and we should recognise his achievements with far more gratitude than we have done, but his dismissal from Man U is not entirely unjustified. He's just not been good enough. And at the very top managerial bracket, he never will be.
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He won't be holding united back any longer.
- BREAKING NEWS
Posted at08:32
David Moyes has been sacked as manager of Manchester United.
streeky
Player Valuation: £35m
maybe he can come back to goodison as chief scout.I think we all agree his tactics held us back but his record on transfers is fantastic and don't forget he brought in the legend timmy cahill and soon to be ledges seamus and Leighton.his dad can come too excellent scout
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