babyhayley
Player Valuation: £750k
In my opinion, Moyes peaked in 2009 after the FA Cup final. He should have gone then. He held us back from that moment on.
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Elong
The fire rises
In hindsight. However, at the time, it could also have been a stepping stone to greater things. Unless you're a psychic it's pretty tough to say he should have been fired for losing that final.
Christiffa25
Player Valuation: £35m
He wasn't backed after that period tho mate. He watched the likes of spurs, city, l'pool and the rest spend big money, where he had next to nothing bar the lescott money. He can't be blamed for everything.
I agree that was the biggining of the end tho, no money etc saw him become a defeatist in us moving on to that next level. Whether he would of been able to do it with the funding is another question but the board certainly helped into breaking the man.
Mr. F
Player Valuation: £500k
If he is allowed another season to spend those £200m in the summer and still fail to get United back where they feel they belong, and if Martinez manages to repeat or even improve Evertons points tally from this season or win a trophy using one tenth of Uniteds transfer fund, and with Kenwright still in charge we will have some definite answers.
Lots and lots of ifs there. Will United trust Moyes with the money to spend on signing the players needed at the very top level and build that team? Not all of their fans would. Will Everton be able to keep improving and get into the CL and even win trophies? I think so.
Some managers has a level, and you can probably ask Crystal Palace fans right now if they love Tony Pulis, a brilliant manager when the task is to steady a club in the Premier League, but he has never brought a club to the top half that I know of.
It follows that some teams also has a level, and a way of doing things that they are comfortable with, the team that Martinez inherited bought into his style quickly and fully and raised their level as a result, that is maybe something Moyes hasn't been able to do with United (yet.)
Tldr: Technically the jury's still out, but my money is on yes at least the last few years.
Lots and lots of ifs there. Will United trust Moyes with the money to spend on signing the players needed at the very top level and build that team? Not all of their fans would. Will Everton be able to keep improving and get into the CL and even win trophies? I think so.
Some managers has a level, and you can probably ask Crystal Palace fans right now if they love Tony Pulis, a brilliant manager when the task is to steady a club in the Premier League, but he has never brought a club to the top half that I know of.
It follows that some teams also has a level, and a way of doing things that they are comfortable with, the team that Martinez inherited bought into his style quickly and fully and raised their level as a result, that is maybe something Moyes hasn't been able to do with United (yet.)
Tldr: Technically the jury's still out, but my money is on yes at least the last few years.
teppic
Player Valuation: £50m
Bingo. I remember that night well. The whole of Goodison turned on him in unison for perhaps the first time. That was a massive red flag about his mindset and tactical ability.
Chang Elephant
Forum God
Yeah, but playing Hibbert RB and Osman RW on the wide open spaces of Wembley, was definitely a clue about his ineptitude
nigelcoyb
Player Valuation: £25m
Moyes first game against Fulham in 2002 had this line up:
Simonsen; Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs, Pistone; Gemmill, Gravesen, Carsley, Unsworth Ferguson, Radzinski.
Not a relegation outfit at all it took woeful management by Walter to get us fannying around in the lower reaches.
Add in the "secret weapon" of a certain 16 yr old on his way and the picture is very different to the apocalypse inheritance that underpins the Moyes myth.
Moyes did manage the back to basics bit bringing stability but after the CL experience he soiled his kex and all ambition vanished.
He held us back but with the support of Evertonians.
Simonsen; Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs, Pistone; Gemmill, Gravesen, Carsley, Unsworth Ferguson, Radzinski.
Not a relegation outfit at all it took woeful management by Walter to get us fannying around in the lower reaches.
Add in the "secret weapon" of a certain 16 yr old on his way and the picture is very different to the apocalypse inheritance that underpins the Moyes myth.
Moyes did manage the back to basics bit bringing stability but after the CL experience he soiled his kex and all ambition vanished.
He held us back but with the support of Evertonians.
Did he hold us back? Or just move on at the right time?
Do people think Martinez is just doing an average job, or a good one? If Martinez turned down the [Poor language removed] last season would he have come to us any earlier? So which other realistic manager would we have got in to move us forward?
Surely Moyes only held us back if an average manager could have done better. If Martinez is moving us forward can't we just enjoy that?
Plus, Martinez has a big summer ahead to take another step forward. Doubt the likes of Chelsea/City are as likely to loan to a team as close to them in the League next season.
Do people think Martinez is just doing an average job, or a good one? If Martinez turned down the [Poor language removed] last season would he have come to us any earlier? So which other realistic manager would we have got in to move us forward?
Surely Moyes only held us back if an average manager could have done better. If Martinez is moving us forward can't we just enjoy that?
Plus, Martinez has a big summer ahead to take another step forward. Doubt the likes of Chelsea/City are as likely to loan to a team as close to them in the League next season.
I think he left at the right time. For the last few years of his tenure we were constantly told by the media that he had taken us as far as we could go. The reality is that he had taken us as far as he could go. He did a very good job for us over a significant number of years, brought stability to the club and moved us to regular top 8 finishes - something that seemed light years away when he took over, but for the last couple of years I think he'd reached a stage where he didn't believe we could go any further. The Man Utd move came at a perfect time for us and Moyes. Can't say the same for Utd, and it looks like he's on his way out of there now. God knows how he must be feeling and I do have some sorrow for his current plight as he did a lot of good for our club until he reached his own glass ceiling.
Oh man, it's just too perfect that his return to Goodison was the straw that broke the Glazer's back.
What an epic tragedy.
What an epic tragedy.
....I'm not sure 'how long did Moyes hold us back' is a fair question. A key aspect of what has happened is that RM took over. Perhaps its more accurate to say he was just waiting around for Roberto to become available.
Think it is myself - and the answer is three to four years.
Nah, that's too harsh. In 2008 we were still a club on the up and improving as he shaped his second side.
And I think it's harsh to say he was never pro-active - he actually did change, but it was for the worse. When he first arrived, he was humble, respectful, massively energetic and he worked miracles. The "People's Club" Moyes was a genuine revelation. He was never a tactician, but he wanted to succeed so badly.
Now, however... well, he's a shadow of that. It showed his arrogance and conceit when he gutted the United backroom staff just because he thought he was god's gift to management and was convinced he'd be able to build an empire there in a month.
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