linglong
Player Valuation: £25m
Being there i remember that report to well,
Heysal and Hillsborough disasters
- Thread starter Nebbiolo
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There is no doubt in my mind that, whilst 96 people died needlessly as a result of some dreadful treatment at the hands of those responsible for POLICING*1 the event, there were many contributory factors which LFC and the Jf96 Committee, amongst others, seem to conveniently overlook - particularly the level of alcohol consumption by some of those inside the ground and secondly the additional numbers admitted without tickets (whether admitted in error or by fraudulent means).
However it is more than obvious that the authorities failed to adequately and - more importantly - efficiently deal with the problem that was allowed - over a significant timeperiod to snowball into a catastrophe. It seems, with the benefit of some hindsight, that the (non) reaction to the crisis was extremely poor given that many of those who could have avoided this problem ought to have been adequately trained in relieving the situation - opening gates (which were there to keep the lower-lifes2 behind a barrier) for example.
It is quite regrettable that the Government continually refuse to lay adequate blame with the South Yorkshire Police (amongst others). It is typical of this nation that successive Governments prefer to sweep the whole matter under the carpet - as they have demonstrated on other occasions such as Cash For Questions, De Menezes, Blair Peach, Iraq - and most likely Ian Tomlinson - and so on.
With regard specifically to the manner in which LFC continue to overlook the Heysel equation this could quite easily be remedied if LFC acknowledged that a proportion of their fans (they clearly don't need to lay the blame squarely with all their fans) were responsible in part - provoked or otherwise - for the deaths of 39 Italians. Certainly then the rest of us could get on with accepting the later consequences of that event (European Ban etc.) if they simply just put their hands up. We might have a lot more respect for what they are trying to achieve viz a viz Hillsborough if they simply didn't mirror the Government's mealy mouthed efforts in many other contentious scenarios with this attempt to airbrush that particular event from their history.
1 *policing means "responsible for the overall control and management of the stadium - whether you choose to call those responsible the Police Force is up to you.
2 How football supporters were (are) viewed - as some sort of lesser mortals by the powers that be (and not a statement about LFC fans).
However it is more than obvious that the authorities failed to adequately and - more importantly - efficiently deal with the problem that was allowed - over a significant timeperiod to snowball into a catastrophe. It seems, with the benefit of some hindsight, that the (non) reaction to the crisis was extremely poor given that many of those who could have avoided this problem ought to have been adequately trained in relieving the situation - opening gates (which were there to keep the lower-lifes2 behind a barrier) for example.
It is quite regrettable that the Government continually refuse to lay adequate blame with the South Yorkshire Police (amongst others). It is typical of this nation that successive Governments prefer to sweep the whole matter under the carpet - as they have demonstrated on other occasions such as Cash For Questions, De Menezes, Blair Peach, Iraq - and most likely Ian Tomlinson - and so on.
With regard specifically to the manner in which LFC continue to overlook the Heysel equation this could quite easily be remedied if LFC acknowledged that a proportion of their fans (they clearly don't need to lay the blame squarely with all their fans) were responsible in part - provoked or otherwise - for the deaths of 39 Italians. Certainly then the rest of us could get on with accepting the later consequences of that event (European Ban etc.) if they simply just put their hands up. We might have a lot more respect for what they are trying to achieve viz a viz Hillsborough if they simply didn't mirror the Government's mealy mouthed efforts in many other contentious scenarios with this attempt to airbrush that particular event from their history.
1 *policing means "responsible for the overall control and management of the stadium - whether you choose to call those responsible the Police Force is up to you.
2 How football supporters were (are) viewed - as some sort of lesser mortals by the powers that be (and not a statement about LFC fans).
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A couple of points, who exactly do they want justice from and what do they want to happen?
1) The FA? - For stupidly giving them the wrong end, both in terms of capacity and geography
2) Ticketless Fans? - There was a sizeable number already inside the Leppings Lane end and many more 1000s outside, were Liverpool foolish enough to produce more tickets than the capacity of the end? Or as we all know, a sizeable number turned up at the ground without a ticket hoping to get in by any means they could. Should these fans not be held be responsible?
3) The Police? - Who couldnt handle the crowd, were forced by pressure from the fans to open any gate just to let them in and in there error opened the wrong 1. If they didnt open the gate surely there would have been a crush outside?
Since Mr Hicks has now retired from the Hillsborough campaign, perhaps he can take a new one up. Justice for the 39 Itais, come on Mr Hicks you know its a good cause, they were innocent as well!
1) The FA? - For stupidly giving them the wrong end, both in terms of capacity and geography
2) Ticketless Fans? - There was a sizeable number already inside the Leppings Lane end and many more 1000s outside, were Liverpool foolish enough to produce more tickets than the capacity of the end? Or as we all know, a sizeable number turned up at the ground without a ticket hoping to get in by any means they could. Should these fans not be held be responsible?
3) The Police? - Who couldnt handle the crowd, were forced by pressure from the fans to open any gate just to let them in and in there error opened the wrong 1. If they didnt open the gate surely there would have been a crush outside?
Since Mr Hicks has now retired from the Hillsborough campaign, perhaps he can take a new one up. Justice for the 39 Itais, come on Mr Hicks you know its a good cause, they were innocent as well!
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian
The Unobstructed View
geographically as you approach the stadium Leppings Lane is the 1st stand that you reach if travelling over via woodhead, so thats why they were allocated that end.
one thing that stands out for me is that the whole design of the end with the central tunnel and the police/stewards inability to cope with the surge. anyone who stood there previously in that pen directly behind the goal will have been crushed as k.o. approached as it happened every time i went there, they used to make everyone move to side pens before opening the centre, but in the corners you could walk behind and back down the tunnel which a lot would do because they wanted to be in the centre (me included).
something that hasn't really been highlighted is it almost happened before F.A. CUP SEMI-FINAL LEEDS V SPURS 1981
Hillsborough Stadium itself had previous. The FA Cup semi-final of 1981 between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolves had seen 38 people injured when the late arrival of Spurs fans at the Leppings Lane End after bad traffic on the M1 had led to a terrifying crush. This incident had seen the ground ignored for semi-finals for another six years, only being allowed to re-stage such games by the FA after the terrace was restructured into five pens stretching behind the goal.
Even after similar crushing was reported at the 1987 semi-final between Leeds United and Coventry City, the FA chose to place Liverpool and Forest at Hillsborough for 1988's FA Cup semi, a carbon copy of the game that would end in tragedy.
The 1988 game had seen fans feeling similarly uncomfortable with many a complaint made about how Liverpool, with a far higher average attendance, were granted the smaller end while Forest fans were given Hillsborough's own Kop, itself redolent of the stand of the same name at Anfield. The flow of car traffic from the roads the fans of each club would be travelling from was the given explanation for that.
The FA chose to hold the 1989 match in the same place, citing its precursor as a success. That the ground did not possess a valid safety certificate was only later discovered
On that day: Hillsborough - A fateful day of change - England - ESPN Soccernet
a united fan tells problems months before,just like i said.
i think personally that if justice is sought then there will have to be an acceptance of blame on the part of those that forced their way in and their part in the events that led to the gate being opened, by the looks of the videos there wouldve been deaths in the street outside if the pressure hadnt been relieved somehow, for me it could be that no charges have ever been brought as the can of worms that would be opened would be very unpleasant, with official fingers being pointed at some liverpool supporters.
i was at villa park that day, i went without a ticket and got one outside, loads used to do it and i did it the year before as well. i remember a message going across the scoreboard saying play was suspended due to a crowd incident (i think those were the words), close to the end we asked a copper if they had restarted and he said "no, listen lads, there have been deaths, seems due to crushing and it seems like a lot." as we left villa park we were numb, as we had boarded coaches at the same time as Liverpool Supporters and set off in opposite directions, nobody spoke as we listened to the radio on the way home wondering if everyone we knew was safe. all of us realising how easily it could've been us, just down to the cup-draw basically.
the events today on tv really have reminded me of things that happened at the time, like the horrific front page pictures, i've had an image of one of mr hicks daughters in my head all day that appeared on a front page, he has obviously been campaigning since and i dont think he can be criticised for that, the man lost 2 daughters and saw their young faces with the life crushed out of them on the front of national newspapers. it's those images that have kept it in my mind i think, as i had never encountered anything like that before.
one thing that stands out for me is that the whole design of the end with the central tunnel and the police/stewards inability to cope with the surge. anyone who stood there previously in that pen directly behind the goal will have been crushed as k.o. approached as it happened every time i went there, they used to make everyone move to side pens before opening the centre, but in the corners you could walk behind and back down the tunnel which a lot would do because they wanted to be in the centre (me included).
something that hasn't really been highlighted is it almost happened before F.A. CUP SEMI-FINAL LEEDS V SPURS 1981
Hillsborough Stadium itself had previous. The FA Cup semi-final of 1981 between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolves had seen 38 people injured when the late arrival of Spurs fans at the Leppings Lane End after bad traffic on the M1 had led to a terrifying crush. This incident had seen the ground ignored for semi-finals for another six years, only being allowed to re-stage such games by the FA after the terrace was restructured into five pens stretching behind the goal.
Even after similar crushing was reported at the 1987 semi-final between Leeds United and Coventry City, the FA chose to place Liverpool and Forest at Hillsborough for 1988's FA Cup semi, a carbon copy of the game that would end in tragedy.
The 1988 game had seen fans feeling similarly uncomfortable with many a complaint made about how Liverpool, with a far higher average attendance, were granted the smaller end while Forest fans were given Hillsborough's own Kop, itself redolent of the stand of the same name at Anfield. The flow of car traffic from the roads the fans of each club would be travelling from was the given explanation for that.
The FA chose to hold the 1989 match in the same place, citing its precursor as a success. That the ground did not possess a valid safety certificate was only later discovered
On that day: Hillsborough - A fateful day of change - England - ESPN Soccernet
a united fan tells problems months before,just like i said.
i think personally that if justice is sought then there will have to be an acceptance of blame on the part of those that forced their way in and their part in the events that led to the gate being opened, by the looks of the videos there wouldve been deaths in the street outside if the pressure hadnt been relieved somehow, for me it could be that no charges have ever been brought as the can of worms that would be opened would be very unpleasant, with official fingers being pointed at some liverpool supporters.
i was at villa park that day, i went without a ticket and got one outside, loads used to do it and i did it the year before as well. i remember a message going across the scoreboard saying play was suspended due to a crowd incident (i think those were the words), close to the end we asked a copper if they had restarted and he said "no, listen lads, there have been deaths, seems due to crushing and it seems like a lot." as we left villa park we were numb, as we had boarded coaches at the same time as Liverpool Supporters and set off in opposite directions, nobody spoke as we listened to the radio on the way home wondering if everyone we knew was safe. all of us realising how easily it could've been us, just down to the cup-draw basically.
the events today on tv really have reminded me of things that happened at the time, like the horrific front page pictures, i've had an image of one of mr hicks daughters in my head all day that appeared on a front page, he has obviously been campaigning since and i dont think he can be criticised for that, the man lost 2 daughters and saw their young faces with the life crushed out of them on the front of national newspapers. it's those images that have kept it in my mind i think, as i had never encountered anything like that before.
Its not, the A628 brings you to the north of the stadium (the opp side to leppings lane)
Its the anniversary today mate, I just find that tasteless and classless.
Truthful and more importantly Relevant
To be honest Chico, despite today being the anniversary, questions are still being asked by those that where directly affected by the tragedy. That is what the Justice for the 96 is all about. Chants rang around Anfield today asking for exactly that, Justice.
ToxtethBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
I bet you boys can't wait to lift that big banner over your heads at Wembley.
Sorry mate but theres plenty of other days for that to be debated.
Nice one for your controversial views on an internet website but you should practice a little bit of respect today.
Halewood bloo v3, some things never change.
Is that him?
I wouldnt like to say.
Cal
Player Valuation: £40m
No **** Sherlock.
The fact that he's been banned, for being a tit, numerous times before and still pops up here under a guise tells its own tale.
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