2024/25 Harrison Armstrong

[Nymzee]

….the last thing you want to do with a highly promising 18yo at a crucial stage in his development is send him to a Manager who is solely concentrated on winning points. For a start, I doubt he’d see much game time, he won’t be given time to learn and make mistakes, his best interests will not be protected.

You've basically just described Everton.

 

[Eggs]

Eggs hates loan moves even though all our best academy talents played out on loan.

….i’m actually not against loans per se, worked well for signings like Branthwaite and Coleman. As far as Academy youngsters go, Osman and Barkley had loan spells but both had serious injury’s at key parts of their development. Latterly, Anthony Gordon went out but the likes of Rooney, Hibbert, Amokachi etc came straight into the first team.

I just think we’re a lot different to clubs like Chelsea with vast amounts of talent at their disposal. If we have a real diamond, the Manager will invariably want access to him because there isn’t much ahead of them in the pecking order. We send lots of Academy youngsters out but the vast majority have no future at our club.

 

[ElGato]

Nope, not a bar of it.
Early Barkley was all instinct and Instant reaction, (when it comes off you get that Newcastle goal) but back then, wouldn't know a percentage ball and thus when and when not to play it if it jumped up and bit him.
10yrs on and he's...finally... picked up a bit of nouse...just enough to function on and off the bench when required.

Suit yourself. I preferred instinctive Barkley

That 13/14 season I seem to remember him being unplayable. That Man City game at home in particular stands out. Scored an absolute screamer but in open play was shrugging off a prime Yaya Toure - made him look second rate. I recall Mancini subbing off Aguero to put Fernandinho on to man mark him, and gave him the jolly too.

I have memories thereafter of him being less dynamic under Martinez, and affecting games less. Don't know if that was the tactics, the position Martinez wanted him to play, or maybe he would have continued on that trajectory regardless of the manager; maybe he couldn't adapt to the broader changes in the game (midfielders less direct, more about controlling games, controlling the space). Either way he was a worse player for it.

 

[degsy]

Suit yourself. I preferred instinctive Barkley

Didn't we all - when it worked

That 13/14 season I seem to remember him being unplayable. That Man City game at home in particular stands out. Scored an absolute screamer but in open play was shrugging off a prime Yaya Toure - made him look second rate. I recall Mancini subbing off Aguero to put Fernandinho on to man mark him, and gave him the jolly too.

I have memories thereafter of him being less dynamic under Martinez, and affecting games less. Don't know if that was the tactics, the position Martinez wanted him to play, or maybe he would have continued on that trajectory regardless of the manager; maybe he couldn't adapt to the broader changes in the game (midfielders less direct, more about controlling games, controlling the space). Either way he was a worse player for it.

 

[Nymzee]

….i’m actually not against loans per se, worked well for signings like Branthwaite and Coleman. As far as Academy youngsters go, Osman and Barkley had loan spells but both had serious injury’s at key parts of their development. Latterly, Anthony Gordon went out but the likes of Rooney, Hibbert, Amokachi etc came straight into the first team.

I just think we’re a lot different to clubs like Chelsea with vast amounts of talent at their disposal. If we have a real diamond, the Manager will invariably want access to him because there isn’t much ahead of them in the pecking order. We send lots of Academy youngsters out but the vast majority have no future at our club.

No, you are. Don’t try and change it now.

Amokachi???

 

[ElGato]

Didn't we all - when it worked

Indeed. Just another promising player with talent who's career went down the u-bend after they left this great club. Has anyone other than Rooney gone on to match or surpass their time here?

We are that special

 

[degsy]

Indeed. Just another promising player with talent who's career went down the u-bend after they left this great club. Has anyone other than Rooney gone on to match or surpass their time here?

We are that special

Lookman?

 

[ElGato]

Lookman?

Good shout. Took him a while though

I actually saw him make his debut down at Charlton (my mate is a season ticket holder). Was very impressive then, good to see him (finally) find his game

 

[bluestevon]

Indeed. Just another promising player with talent who's career went down the u-bend after they left this great club. Has anyone other than Rooney gone on to match or surpass their time here?

We are that special

McMahon obviously although hate saying it.

Lookman, Lukaku won the league in Italy after us, manager wise obviously Ancelotti didn't do too bad either after us. John stones did a little bit better at City too.

 

[ElGato]

McMahon obviously although hate saying it.

Lookman, Lukaku won the league in Italy after us, manager wise obviously Ancelotti didn't do too bad either after us. John stones did a little bit better at City too.

Lukaku is surely a no, been a laughing stock wherever he's gone, league title or no league title.

John Stones I'll add to the (very small) list

 

[kev]

, Anthony Gordon went out but the likes of Rooney, Hibbert, Amokachi etc came straight into the first team.

Not sure where Amokachi comes into that discussion. Wasn't he already an international and a regular 1st team choice for Club Brugge before we signed him?

 

[Clarky cat]

No, you are. Don’t try and change it now.

Amokachi???

Victor Amokachi?…

 

[ToffeeScot]

Not sure where Amokachi comes into that discussion. Wasn't he already an international and a regular 1st team choice for Club Brugge before we signed him?

He was 22 when he joined Everton and had just played in the 94 World Cup.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Suit yourself. I preferred instinctive Barkley

That 13/14 season I seem to remember him being unplayable. That Man City game at home in particular stands out. Scored an absolute screamer but in open play was shrugging off a prime Yaya Toure - made him look second rate. I recall Mancini subbing off Aguero to put Fernandinho on to man mark him, and gave him the jolly too.

I have memories thereafter of him being less dynamic under Martinez, and affecting games less. Don't know if that was the tactics, the position Martinez wanted him to play, or maybe he would have continued on that trajectory regardless of the manager; maybe he couldn't adapt to the broader changes in the game (midfielders less direct, more about controlling games, controlling the space). Either way he was a worse player for it.

Yes a lot of your last paragraph is true of the player Ross became, if only he’d had that football brain when he was younger and fitter!

 

[Jacko93]

….i’m actually not against loans per se, worked well for signings like Branthwaite and Coleman. As far as Academy youngsters go, Osman and Barkley had loan spells but both had serious injury’s at key parts of their development. Latterly, Anthony Gordon went out but the likes of Rooney, Hibbert, Amokachi etc came straight into the first team.

I just think we’re a lot different to clubs like Chelsea with vast amounts of talent at their disposal. If we have a real diamond, the Manager will invariably want access to him because there isn’t much ahead of them in the pecking order. We send lots of Academy youngsters out but the vast majority have no future at our club.

I feel like many of our loans go out to improve their value when it comes to shifting them on, rather than in preparation for the first team.
With the way we've done management over the last 7 years, players on loan are more.likely to be forgotten about that improve chances of first team game. Ancelotti and Garbutt an example of this.

James Vaughan is our pathways manager, a player who never needed loans to be ready as a kid. If a player is good enough, he'll play for us. If he's not, he'll play elsewhere and likely never come back to a level high enough. Unless of course we are pushing them on to get a higher level of fitness after injury or disrupted progression. There are players who've played their entire lives, successfully, in the lower leagues who, with all that experience would never be experienced for the Premier League. 6 months with a lower league team doesn't give youths the 'experience' they need. Exposure at the top level gets them that.

Teams like Chelse, snd us recently are built on immediate returns, and if you don't give it, your out. This is not conducive to a developmentally focused approach.