Group B: England, Iran, USA, Wales

[MikeH72]

What strikes me is how volatile the English support appears to be. Maybe it's just a media thing, but after the 6-2 win over Iran England were being held up by many as serious contenders. After the USA draw, they are being pilloried in some quarters. There appears to be no balance at all. The reality is they have effectively qualified from a tricky group where all of their opponents would be highly motivated with one match to spare. Are they likely to win the tournament? No. But a run to the last four looks possible.

I find it astoundingly arrogant that many thought they would run through the Americans. I expected England to win by the odd goal, but a draw is not a surprise to anybody who has been paying attention. As an Irishman, I know that other "Anglosphere" countries will lift their game against England at international football tournaments. We've seen it for ever. The USA in 1950 and 2010. Ireland in Euro 88 and Italia 90. Scotland in Euro 2020. Wales had a good go at Euro 2016. Last night merely continues the dominant trend. Indeed, if you look at the results England have had against their cultural neighbours, they tend to draw more than they win. Only the Euro 96 win over Scotland and the last-gasp win over Wales in 2016 resulted in victories. A reason for this trend is the rest of us feed off of any perceived English arrogance and fuel our performances with it.

All said, England are alive and kicking - unlike the mighty Germans who will be eliminated tomorrow - and have prospects at this tournament. Last night will help them as the hype bubble has been popped and the expectation will drop. I am pretty sure that England missed their golden chance at Euro 2020 - it was there for them and they blew it - but with a little less pressure they might surprise those of us who have been paying attention.

I mean that’s a lot of words, but no, playing for a 0-0 draw against the USA is not acceptable and fans are right to call out the manager for it.

 

[Connor]

But that can still happen, because the ball would still be in play?

The Dark Arts

 

[summerisle]

lol

 

[Cool_Blue]

Ramsay and Bale should be retired from the Welsh side after this tournament. Not them saying they're retiring, but the coach coming out and saying he's moving on from them. Both of them are pants now.

I couldn’t believe how bad both of them were, in both games, especially Ramsay, all he did was give the ball away again and again. Disappointing.

 

[Drico]

I mean that’s a lot of words, but no, playing for a 0-0 draw against the USA is not acceptable and fans are right to call out the manager for it.

Did they play for a draw? I saw a team who just weren't good enough to win and, if anything, were a little outplayed by more motivated opponents.

I think some England fans need to swallow this reality check. England have some good players, but few world beaters. The blaming of Southgate strikes me as expedient - as if the players are blameless world-class talents straight-jacketed by a conservative coach. England have good players (and a conservative coach), but they lack a midfield that can truly control a game. In the end, that will do for them no matter who the coach is.

 

[twoblue]

I find it astoundingly arrogant that many thought they would run through the Americans. I expected England to win by the odd goal, but a draw is not a surprise to anybody who has been paying attention. As an Irishman, I know that other "Anglosphere" countries will lift their game against England at international football tournaments. We've seen it for ever. The USA in 1950 and 2010. Ireland in Euro 88 and Italia 90. Scotland in Euro 2020. Wales had a good go at Euro 2016. Last night merely continues the dominant trend. Indeed, if you look at the results England have had against their cultural neighbours, they tend to draw more than they win. Only the Euro 96 win over Scotland and the last-gasp win over Wales in 2016 resulted in victories. A reason for this trend is the rest of us feed off of any perceived English arrogance and fuel our performances with it.

All said, England are alive and kicking - unlike the mighty Germans who will be eliminated tomorrow - and have prospects at this tournament. Last night will help them as the hype bubble has been popped and the expectation will drop. I am pretty sure that England missed their golden chance at Euro 2020 - it was there for them and they blew it - but with a little less pressure they might surprise those of us who have been paying attention.

england basically spurs or arsenal. Decent enough, Talk about us challenging be really we there to make the numbers.
That 0-0 barring a capitulation against wales will see us through. After that it’s the luck of the draw

 

[Drico]

england basically spurs or arsenal. Decent enough, Talk about us challenging be really we there to make the numbers.
That 0-0 barring a capitulation against wales will see us through. After that it’s the luck of the draw

I think you have a shot at the semis. England might not be world beaters but, to be fair, there aren't many world beaters out there right now in international football. I don't think we are living in a vintage era. So, I think there is hope for England and about 10 other sides...

 

[MikeH72]

Did they play for a draw? I saw a team who just weren't good enough to win and, if anything, were a little outplayed by more motivated opponents.

I think some England fans need to swallow this reality check. England have some good players, but few world beaters. The blaming of Southgate strikes me as expedient - as if the players are blameless world-class talents straight-jacketed by a conservative coach. England have good players (and a conservative coach), but they lack a midfield that can truly control a game. In the end, that will do for them no matter who the coach is.

Yes, absolutely. Not entirely sure what game you watched if you think otherwise. The manager brought Jordan Henderson on to shore up the midfield at 0-0, and left a player who is a first teamer for the best side in Europe on the bench, so actually the blaming of Southgate is just rooted in reality.

 

[Drico]

Yes, absolutely. Not entirely sure what game you watched.

We'll have to disagree then, Mike. I saw the US shade an equal enough game. I didn't see either side "play for a draw". Neither were quite good enough to win. England don't have such a surfeit of superior talent to have the luxury of soft-pedalling their way to a draw. A draw was all they were getting last night - and is on trend when it comes to England's historic performances against Anglosphere countries and their recent form this season. Simply put: they're not all that.

 

[MikeH72]

We'll have to disagree then, Mike. I saw the US shade an equal enough game. I didn't see either side "play for a draw". Neither were quite good enough to win. England don't have such a surfeit of superior talent to have the luxury of soft-pedalling their way to a draw. A draw was all they were getting last night - and is on trend when it comes to England's historic performances against Anglosphere countries and their recent form this season. Simply put: they're not all that.

What do you make of the manager’s comments after the game that he was happy with the result and performance then? Almost as if they carried out a game plan or something isn’t it.

The US certainly didn’t play for the draw, because it actually puts them in a precarious position in the group. They were the more ambitious side last night and it was clear for anyone that has a clue to see.

 

[Drico]

What do you make of the manager’s comments after the game that he was happy with the result and performance then? Almost as if they carried out a game plan or something isn’t it.

I think he's doing what he does: plotting his way through the tournament. He is in a great position to qualify now. In fact, it's almost impossible for his team not to qualify now. Compare that with far more successful nations like Germany. Southgate, conservative as he is, will be in the second phase with a real shot at making the last four. Hansi Flick will be, effectively, on the plane home come Monday morning.

Put it this way: I would read more into his team's performance on the pitch than I would his words in a post-match interview. And it probably suits him that the hype bubble has now popped and a dose of realism might start to take hold.

 

[MikeH72]

I think he's doing what he does: plotting his way through the tournament. He is in a great position to qualify now. In fact, it's almost impossible for his team not to qualify now. Compare that with far more successful nations like Germany. Southgate, conservative as he is, will be in the second phase with a real shot at making the last four. Hansi Flick will be, effectively, on the plane home come Monday morning.

Put it this way: I would read more into his team's performance on the pitch than I would his words in a post-match interview. And it probably suits him that the hype bubble has now popped and a dose of realism might start to take hold.

So he did play for the 0-0 then?

 

[Drico]

So he did play for the 0-0 then?

No, not at all. His team just wasn't good enough to win. Simple as that for me, Mike. Maybe the players are not quite as good as the Premier League hype bubble would have you believe...

 

[MikeH72]

No, not at all. His team just wasn't good enough to win. Simple as that for me, Mike. Maybe the players are not quite as good as the Premier League hype bubble would have you believe...

I think you are spectacularly miles and miles off the mark if I’m honest with you so I’ll just leave it there. We were trying to win the game but Henderson was subbed on instead of Phil Foden, ok sure.

It seems to really hurt people to think that England might have top class players, and that the man who relegated Middlesbrough actually isn’t a good enough manager, for some reason.

 

[4 Eyes Better Than 2]

No, not at all. His team just wasn't good enough to win. Simple as that for me, Mike. Maybe the players are not quite as good as the Premier League hype bubble would have you believe...

Stop being silly mate

They are superb players and anyone who thinks otherwise is being a plank. They had an off day at a major competition, it happens. They were poor for the standard of player in the team. I know it and you know it, that’s why you’re here commenting.

To say they aren’t as good as we all think is utter nonsense.