Group B: England, Iran, USA, Wales

[Drico]

I think you are spectacularly miles and miles off the mark if I’m honest with you so I’ll just leave it there.

It seems to really hurt people to think that England might have top class players, and that the man who relegated Middlesbrough actually isn’t a good enough manager, for some reason.

On the contrary. My take is that it hurts a certain type of England fan to face up to the bitter truth that, just perhaps, their overpaid, overhyped Premier League stars are just not quite of the level required to bring home an international title - and it is therefore expedient to blame it all on the manager, whether he is Southgate, Capello, Eriksen, or Bobby Robson back in the day. It's always the manager's fault.

In the end, I think the dearth of a genuinely world-class midfield will do for England. That won't be because Southgate is a mediocrity - even if he is. It'll be because Spain, France, Portugal, or Luka Modric will be that little bit more classy when it counts.

 

[MikeH72]

Stop being silly mate

They are superb players and anyone who thinks otherwise is being a plank. They had an off day at a major competition, it happens. They were poor for the standard of player in the team. I know it and you know it, that’s why you’re here commenting.

To say they aren’t as good as we all think is utter nonsense.

No mate, all the best managers in the game are wrong and Gareth Southgate the career loser is right. Foden isn’t good enough to start and Harry Maguire is.

 

[MikeH72]

On the contrary. My take is that it hurts a certain type of England fan to face up to the bitter truth that, just perhaps, their overpaid, overhyped Premier League stars are just not quite of the level required to bring home an international title - and it is therefore expedient to blame it all on the manager, whether he is Southgate, Capello, Eriksen, or Bobby Robson back in the day. It's always the manager's fault.

In the end, I think the dearth of a genuinely world-class midfield will do for England. That won't be because Southgate is a mediocrity - even if he is. It'll be because Spain, France, Portugal, or Luka Modric will be that little bit more classy when it counts.

Except this actually is the manager’s fault. This is a far better squad of players than any of those managers ever had. These players prove it week in, week out for their clubs.

I know you’re thoroughly enjoying England having Southgate as manager as it means they won’t get anywhere near winning a trophy, but as fans we are fed up. We know exactly what’s going to happen, we will play for pens against the first decent side we play in the knockouts, and limp out. It has nothing to do with the quality of the players, we set up that way against a crap Italy side that didn’t even qualify for the World Cup. I guess we will see what happens when he finally shuffles off and maybe gets very generously offered a job in club football, I guess we’ll see once and for all who was correct.

 

[MikeH72]

Stop being silly mate

They are superb players and anyone who thinks otherwise is being a plank. They had an off day at a major competition, it happens. They were poor for the standard of player in the team. I know it and you know it, that’s why you’re here commenting.

To say they aren’t as good as we all think is utter nonsense.

No mate. Phil Foden isn’t as good as the greatest manager of all time Pep Guardiola has hyped you into believing. Gareth knows, the relegation specialist.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Wales are gonna do England 3-0 and have a late 4th chalked off for VAR.

I know this won't happen, but I like adding my bad predictions in amongst all the other awful takes.

 

[Drico]

Except this actually is the manager’s fault. This is a far better squad of players than any of those managers ever had. These players prove it week in, week out for their clubs.

I know you’re thoroughly enjoying England having Southgate as manager as it means they won’t get anywhere near winning a trophy, but as fans we are fed up. We know exactly what’s going to happen, we will play for pens against the first decent side we play in the knockouts, and limp out. It has nothing to do with the quality of the players, we set up that way against a crap Italy side that didn’t even qualify for the World Cup. I guess we will see what happens when he finally shuffles off and maybe gets very generously offered a job in club football, I guess we’ll see once and for all who was correct.

I suppose, Mike, I'd have more time for "the manager is holding us back" argument if it was coming from Italian, German, or Brazilian fans. If England had a track record of success, you could point to the manager as a possible factor in any temporary decline (though even with those countries there are periods when they don't produce as many top players as they need to).

The argument that the English lads are all top players and do it week-in week-out for their clubs would be stronger, too, if the successful club sides they played for were overwhelmingly populated by English players and were still successful. But they're not. The English lads are surrounded by top class foreigners. De Bruyne and Haaland will always make a Grealish or Walker look better.

In summary, I just don't buy the entitlement that suggests England failed to beat the Americans because, well, the manager wasn't trying to. I think it's disrespectful to the opposition and self-defeating for England to take that view.

 

[MikeH72]

I suppose, Mike, I'd have more time for "the manager is holding us back" argument if it was coming from Italian, German, or Brazilian fans. If England had a track record of success, you could point to the manager as a possible factor in any temporary decline (though even with those countries there are periods when they don't produce as many top players as they need to).

The argument that the English lads are all top players and do it week-in week-out for their clubs would be stronger, too, if the successful club sides they played for were overwhelmingly populated by English players and were still successful. But they're not. The English lads are surrounded by top class foreigners. De Bruyne and Haaland will always make a Grealish or Walker look better.

In summary, I just don't buy the entitlement that suggests England failed to beat the Americans because, well, the manager wasn't trying to. I think it's disrespectful to the opposition and self-defeating for England to take that view.

Do you believe the Belgian players of the past 6 years were also overhyped by the Premier League machine or do you think they’re being wasted on a clueless blurt of a manager?

Your second paragraph doesn’t make any sense. City and Arsenal have far more English players starting for them than any other single nation, you can’t just say there’s English players and then “foreign” as if that’s a nation in and of itself. What’s stopping me from saying Foden and Walker are just making De Bruyne look better? After all he’s the only Belgian in their team surrounded by other nationalities.

 

[chicoazul]

I enjoy the way England brings this forum together as one cohesive, friendly unit.

 

[Drico]

Do you believe the Belgian players of the past 6 years were also overhyped by the Premier League machine or do you think they’re being wasted on a clueless blurt of a manager?

I think Belgium have had some fine players, particularly attacking players, in that time, but not quite enough throughout the squad to give them the balance they needed to win a major title AND the players they did have were wasted on not one but TWO clueless blurts of managers.

Belgium's issue is more about size. It's a small country and therefore is unlikely to produce enough brilliant players at once to provide them with the balance they need to win a trophy. But appointing Martinez was, essentially, self-sabotage and ended any chance they might have had had injuries and luck been kind.

 

[MikeH72]

I think Belgium have had some fine players, particularly attacking players, in that time, but not quite enough throughout the squad to give them the balance they needed to win a major title AND the players they did have were wasted on not one but TWO clueless blurts of managers.

Belgium's issue is more about size. It's a small country and therefore is unlikely to produce enough brilliant players at once to provide them with the balance they need to win a trophy. But appointing Martinez was, essentially, self-sabotage and ended any chance they might have had had injuries and luck been kind

I don’t think it has anything to do with size, China would be the best side in the world if that had anything to do with it. Regardless of population, Belgium produced a set of players that was the best in the world on paper for a number of years. Who’s the blame for them not performing at international level?

 

[Librarian]

 

[4 Eyes Better Than 2]

@Drico is going above and beyond trying to convince himself and everyone England are wank. LOL

The amount of paragraphs he’s wrote today is impressive.

….. because they drawn a game.

tHeY aRe pOOr PlaYErs cOs DeY pLaY wiD thE bEsTest pLaYerS iN dEr werrrrLD at cLub lEvEL mAtE

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I enjoy the way England brings this forum together as one cohesive, friendly unit.

I for one want Southgate to get the Everton job because he's clearly a huge component of that unifying balm.

 

[Drico]

Your second paragraph doesn’t make any sense. City and Arsenal have far more English players starting for them than any other single nation, you can’t just say there’s English players and then “foreign” as if that’s a nation in and of itself. What’s stopping me from saying Foden and Walker are just making De Bruyne look better? After all he’s the only Belgian in their team surrounded by other nationalities.

What's stopping you saying Foden and Walker make De Bruyne look better? Your eyesight and intelligence, I suspect. lol

The point is the good English players will always look better with great foreign players around them and Premier League form is no guide to international form especially when the international side will, be definition, be weaker.

 

[Drico]

I don’t think it has anything to do with size, China would be the best side in the world if that had anything to do with it. Regardless of population, Belgium produced a set of players that was the best in the world on paper for a number of years. Who’s the blame for them not performing at international level?

China has no football culture. Belgium, as a founding member of FIFA, does. Apples and oranges, Mike.