Greek Financial Crisis

[Toffeelover]

or the force of controlling finances...

No way, incompetent governments following an impossible doctrine.

 

[Toffeelover]

???? Communism ended in 1989.

Which one?

 

[Toffeelover]

Anyway such matters are nothing to do with Greece.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Can I ask why you strenuously argue for Greece?

Spent a lot of time there over the years, not just as a tourist. If things had turned out slightly different a while ago I'd probably be living there now.

Plus, I have family ( temporarily ) out there and Greek friends, one of whom works on Merseyside over the Winter. Most of the conversation on this thread comes from people with either quite strong left or right wing views who see the situation in Greece as being an opportunity to show how knowledgeable / clever they are, but forget that millions of ordinary peoples lives are being effected, pretty much through no fault of their own.

Basically it's a boss country with the most hospitable people I've met in Europe, and possibly the world. I've lived, worked and travelled in most places and I look on Greece almost as a second home. Various governments over the years have got them into this mess, but it can't have been a surprise to the European financiers that once there was a global financial crisis that Greece would hit the rocks.

The initial idea behind the EU included the concept that the strong would support the weak. While I can understand the Germans and Finns frustrations with the whole Greek situation, they, and other countries, have shown that that's no longer an overriding concern of theres. That's no surprise to anyone, but coupled with the fact that finding a way to kick Greece out of the Euro, even temporarily, was a real option has probably moved the goalposts for ever and has created a distinct "us and them" feeling.

That "us and them" feeling means that the undoubted stability brought about by economic and fiscal union, doesn't look as strong as it once did. That doesn't mean that the EU and the Euro are going away, far from it, but it does change the game somewhat.

 

[The Equaliser]

And your anti British (unless we're lending you money) sentiments summed up perfectly.......

LOL

You sneer down your Tory nose making jibes at Ireland and other less wealthy countries and accuse someone who points out the condescending nature of your attitude of being anti-British.

Get a grip.

 

[The Esk]

@peteblue @The Equaliser let's cool it lads, no need for this type of stuff here, thanks.

 

[Toffeelover]

Spent a lot of time there over the years, not just as a tourist. If things had turned out slightly different a while ago I'd probably be living there now.

Plus, I have family ( temporarily ) out there and Greek friends, one of whom works on Merseyside over the Winter. Most of the conversation on this thread comes from people with either quite strong left or right wing views who see the situation in Greece as being an opportunity to show how knowledgeable / clever they are, but forget that millions of ordinary peoples lives are being effected, pretty much through no fault of their own.

Basically it's a boss country with the most hospitable people I've met in Europe, and possibly the world. I've lived, worked and travelled in most places and I look on Greece almost as a second home. Various governments over the years have got them into this mess, but it can't have been a surprise to the European financiers that once there was a global financial crisis that Greece would hit the rocks.

The initial idea behind the EU included the concept that the strong would support the weak. While I can understand the Germans and Finns frustrations with the whole Greek situation, they, and other countries, have shown that that's no longer an overriding concern of theres. That's no surprise to anyone, but coupled with the fact that finding a way to kick Greece out of the Euro, even temporarily, was a real option has probably moved the goalposts for ever and has created a distinct "us and them" feeling.

That "us and them" feeling means that the undoubted stability brought about by economic and fiscal union, doesn't look as strong as it once did. That doesn't mean that the EU and the Euro are going away, far from it, but it does change the game somewhat.

I understand now.

Quite right that various governments over the decades have not been very good and certainly contributed to the mess. Having said that a proportion of the people were also culpable. Over the decades from the lower levels of the society right up to the top there has been wilful illegal tax evasion by not fully declaring income which deprived governments of funds. That I* do know and theft like I also know of bus drivers pocketing bus fares.

Nevertheless this does not excuse the behaviour of the lenders who have inflicted a despicable campaign against an elected government and a truly awful lack of feeling for a fellow member state and it's people.

To be fair I do not think this "agreement" judging by details leaked is acceptable to anyone in their right mind, it seems to be far too onerous and will leave Greece in a difficult position for decades to come as far as I can judge. This not good. Okay you may want to shoot me down again so be it. In all this have to say I have queries regarding the German role.

 

[magicjuan]

No way, incompetent governments following an impossible doctrine.

Just like ours? Just that the beneficiaries are always the same either way, it all boils down to how much of a flying one the individual gives..

 

[Toffeelover]

Just like ours? Just that the beneficiaries are always the same either way, it all boils down to how much of a flying one the individual gives..

But as I said our governments are accountable and can be changed. You may not like the current lot and their manifesto but many did hence they are in charge until 2020.

 

[magicjuan]

But as I said our governments are accountable and can be changed. You may not like the current lot and their manifesto but many did hence they are in charge until 2020.

Many more didn't. You miss my point, it's irrelevant who is elected, this actual scenario in Greece is testament to the fact that regardless of who is elected the unaccountable make the decisions

 

[peteblue]

@peteblue @The Equaliser let's cool it lads, no need for this type of stuff here, thanks.

Fair enough.......

 

[The Esk]

deleted.

Enough mate..... everyone is entitled to their views.

 

[Lids1978]

Can I just say there's a bird in my bed ten years younger than me. Ta

 

[dholliday]

germany will end up running/owning half of these Euro 'states' ... instead of taking them over by force (WW2) they will simply wait for them to default and then take over the debt and run the country!

 

[Woolly Blue]

Can I just say there's a bird in my bed ten years younger than me. Ta

Where are you sleeping tonight mate ?