Greek Financial Crisis

[roydo]

2001 mate

Hyper inflation was their big problem wasnt it. Like it was cheaper to light a ciggie with a bank note rather than a match or something nuts like that. Defaulted, devalued, etc.

But I am guessing they had a wider level of exportable stuff than Greece.

That being said, they could be in a hole now for I know. Doesnt get much coverage does Argentina apart from football and wars with them.

 

[atrottel]

Trying to remember when Argentina defaulted. I know it was slightly different, in that they wernt in a currency bloc, (I dont think), but politically the two countries are very similar. It all turned out ok I recall, and I would guess, that globally, Argentina were bigger than Greece.

I will ask @bizzaro , unless he is on the currency hedging game tonight.

I think they are still being chased by some vulture funds, mind.

And, from recent articles, it appears that they lucked into a boom market for their exports plus it was a rising general economy. Whereas Greece doesn't have a whole lot to trade (unless the Aegean is sitting on oil) and it looks like recession/stagnation for a while yet.

 

[roydo]

I think they are still being chased by some vulture funds, mind.

And, from recent articles, it appears that they lucked into a boom market for their exports plus it was a rising general economy. Whereas Greece doesn't have a whole lot to trade (unless the Aegean is sitting on oil) and it looks like recession/stagnation for a while yet.

Blimey, really! Jeez.

They have certainly ridden the whole BRIC type bubble, thats for sure. Timber was their thing I seem to recall, and, weirdly, aluminium or something similar. Zinc? Deffo some alloy thing that China wanted bundles of.

 

[atrottel]

Blimey, really! Jeez.

The funds are trying to harass other financial institutions who participate in Argentinian bond auctions.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/193444/‘vultures’-harass-banks-says-deutsche-

 

[hullefc]

"- on labour markets, undertake rigorous reviews of collective bargaining, industrial action and collective dismissals in line with the timetable and the approach suggested by the institutions. Any changes should be based on international and European best practices, and should not involve a return to past policy settings which are not compatible with the goals of promoting sustainable and inclusive growth".

Stubb's has alluded to this and it is shown on Eurogroup papers but it does not appear in any of the proposals that have been shown in the draft reforms. It is proposing mass sackings, I assume of public sector workers, and stopping industrial action. Something workers wouldn't agree with so how would they stop strikes? Riot police/military as the ANEL alluded to. A dangerous game, has been set in motion by those wanting Greece humiliated and out of the Euro zone. If this is still in the draft reforms. Syriza needs to go to the Greek parliament and recommend rejection of the draft reforms. And start preparing for Grexit.

 

[davek]

"- on labour markets, undertake rigorous reviews of collective bargaining, industrial action and collective dismissals in line with the timetable and the approach suggested by the institutions. Any changes should be based on international and European best practices, and should not involve a return to past policy settings which are not compatible with the goals of promoting sustainable and inclusive growth".

Stubb's has alluded to this and it is shown on Eurogroup papers but it does not appear in any of the proposals that have been shown in the draft reforms. It is proposing mass sackings, I assume of public sector workers, and stopping industrial action. Something workers wouldn't agree with so how would they stop strikes? Riot police/military as the ANEL alluded to. A dangerous game, has been set in motion by those wanting Greece humiliated and out of the Euro zone. If this is still in the draft reforms. Syriza needs to go to the Greek parliament and recommend rejection of the draft reforms. And start preparing for Grexit.

#TsiprasLeaveEUSummit trending.

No matter how much of a dented shield you think you can stagger away with in order to keep the prospect of a bailout open, there comes a point where the ejector button has to be pressed. That point is now.

 

[Librarian]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...up-s-proposals-on-greek-debt-crisis-1.2282463

 

[Woolly Blue]

Rely on tourism, shipping, and, er, olive oil to sustain their own country, albeit with a devalued currency being a massive help. Would rather try it myself than continue to be the whipping boy of Northern Europe.

The country's on the brink of collapse. Something has to give.
Tourist spend is down all over the islands. Less people are travelling and, anecdotally at least, spending while there is down.

With Greeks only being able to withdraw 60 Euros a day and credit card transactions a mess, a lot of cashflow in the Islands is coming directly from non-Greeks on holiday. But low cashflow will have a knock on effect because Greeks traditionally go on holiday in August, but if they have no cash, they won't travel, so occupancy rates will stay low.

On the smaller, seasonal islands, tavernas and estiatorios have opened later than normal by a couple of weeks. Families we know who have made a decent living off tourism for 15 to 20 years are now struggling and,in some cases, have had to move to larger islands to pick up work from package holidaymakers, which is less lucrative.

It's slowly, but surely, spiralling downwards. Lots of businesses have gone bust in the last 12 to 18 months and there's a definite movement back to small holdings being worked, mainly to try and feed their own families.

 

[roydo]

The country's on the brink of collapse. Something has to give.
Tourist spend is down all over the islands. Less people are travelling and, anecdotally at least, spending while there is down.

With Greeks only being able to withdraw 60 Euros a day and credit card transactions a mess, a lot of cashflow in the Islands is coming directly from non-Greeks on holiday. But low cashflow will have a knock on effect because Greeks traditionally go on holiday in August, but if they have no cash, they won't travel, so occupancy rates will stay low.

On the smaller, seasonal islands, tavernas and estiatorios have opened later than normal by a couple of weeks. Families we know who have made a decent living off tourism for 15 to 20 years are now struggling and,in some cases, have had to move to larger islands to pick up work from package holidaymakers, which is less lucrative.

It's slowly, but surely, spiralling downwards. Lots of businesses have gone bust in the last 12 to 18 months and there's a definite movement back to small holdings being worked, mainly to try and feed their own families.

That post makes me so sad. A proud nation seemingly sacrificed on the altar of a political experiment that was doomed from the off.

 

[Woolly Blue]

That post makes me so sad. A proud nation seemingly sacrificed on the altar of a political experiment that was doomed from the off.

In itself, being part of the Eurozone isn't seen by most Greeks as the whole problem. Traditionally they devalued the Drachma to help service their debts, but you can only play that game so often and devaluing has a major effect on the people living there.

The ideal solution for most Greeks is a partial write off and / or an extension of the debts into the middle of the century and beyond to make them more serviceable, but to stay in the Euro.

Tsipras is considered by many, to be very bright, but inexperienced, but the Oxi vote has shown he really has the people behind him. I think it's surprised even his own ardent supporters how strong the vote was.

It's like a huge game of poker at the moment. If the Germans effectively force a "temporary" Greek exit from the Eurozone then they're admitting failure and risk having to do the same with other countries.

Greece exiting the Euro, then devaluing the Drachma would also effectively write down a fair chunk of the debt. It's more about political face saving rather than fundamental economics now.

 

[The Esk]

The country's on the brink of collapse. Something has to give.
Tourist spend is down all over the islands. Less people are travelling and, anecdotally at least, spending while there is down.

With Greeks only being able to withdraw 60 Euros a day and credit card transactions a mess, a lot of cashflow in the Islands is coming directly from non-Greeks on holiday. But low cashflow will have a knock on effect because Greeks traditionally go on holiday in August, but if they have no cash, they won't travel, so occupancy rates will stay low.

On the smaller, seasonal islands, tavernas and estiatorios have opened later than normal by a couple of weeks. Families we know who have made a decent living off tourism for 15 to 20 years are now struggling and,in some cases, have had to move to larger islands to pick up work from package holidaymakers, which is less lucrative.

It's slowly, but surely, spiralling downwards. Lots of businesses have gone bust in the last 12 to 18 months and there's a definite movement back to small holdings being worked, mainly to try and feed their own families.

Very sad mate, so many innocent families are going to have their livelihoods destroyed through no fault of their own.

 

[roydo]

rather than fundamental economics now.

If only the EU worked that out a few years back. Tragic.

 

[tsubaki]

The country's on the brink of collapse. Something has to give.
Tourist spend is down all over the islands. Less people are travelling and, anecdotally at least, spending while there is down.

With Greeks only being able to withdraw 60 Euros a day and credit card transactions a mess, a lot of cashflow in the Islands is coming directly from non-Greeks on holiday. But low cashflow will have a knock on effect because Greeks traditionally go on holiday in August, but if they have no cash, they won't travel, so occupancy rates will stay low.

On the smaller, seasonal islands, tavernas and estiatorios have opened later than normal by a couple of weeks. Families we know who have made a decent living off tourism for 15 to 20 years are now struggling and,in some cases, have had to move to larger islands to pick up work from package holidaymakers, which is less lucrative.

It's slowly, but surely, spiralling downwards. Lots of businesses have gone bust in the last 12 to 18 months and there's a definite movement back to small holdings being worked, mainly to try and feed their own families.

The tourist argument is the best argument for grexit and going back to a sovereign currency that there is - put a weak local currency, low local employment costs and a benevolent tax regime with whats happening elsewhere in the world (especially on the southern coast of the Med) and next summer every resort in Greece will be packed out.

 

[DualityNSNO]

The tourist argument is the best argument for grexit and going back to a sovereign currency that there is - put a weak local currency, low local employment costs and a benevolent tax regime with whats happening elsewhere in the world (especially on the southern coast of the Med) and next summer every resort in Greece will be packed out.

We tried that in Bulgaria and it worked for a total of 2-3 summers - my dad's job relies on tourism and he's just about affording standard living costs right now.

That is definitely not a good future plan. It works short-term, but one small error/fault elsewhere and you're boned. Russians are less here now because of their own economical problems, Brits are less and less, people from Israel started going away from us... Those are/were major tourist groups - without them here, everything is dead. The same thing is likely to happen to Greece.

 

[tsubaki]

We tried that in Bulgaria and it worked for a total of 2-3 summers - my dad's job relies on tourism and he's just about affording standard living costs right now.

That is definitely not a good future plan. It works short-term, but one small error/fault elsewhere and you're boned. Russians are less here now because of their own economical problems, Brits are less and less, people from Israel started going away from us... Those are/were major tourist groups - without them here, everything is dead. The same thing is likely to happen to Greece.

With respect though they have always had a bigger tourism thing going on than Bulgaria has, and if its a choice between continuing this involuntary euthanasia imposed by the troika and accepting a voluntary downsizing that will bring some economic benefits (as well as some pain), then it isnt really a choice.