Greek Financial Crisis

[atrottel]

The heads of 'finance' may have been charged in th states but over here they have been rewarded for their gambling sddiction that has cost us individuals dearly with bonuses, relaxed regulation and an almost free rein to continue

I think @atrottel's point was more to do with the fact that it was deemed OK or necessary to bail out massive financial organisations around the world (admittedly not so much in the US) yet when a country finds itself in similar circumstances then there's much less commitment to help other than on the most stringent terms which usually effect the people on the street rather than the people responsible for the situation.

They get 'agreed fines' in the States - many of which are laughably below the amount made by the criminal conduct - see 'deferred prosecution agreements':
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ge-approves-1-9b-drug-money-laundering-accord (I realise in this case that the bank is nominally a British one! But the criminality on display - in this case money-laundering for the Mexican drug cartels - is quite staggering...)

Too big to fail. Too big to be prosecuted.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think @atrottel's point was more to do with the fact that it was deemed OK or necessary to bail out massive financial organisations around the world (admittedly not so much in the US) yet when a country finds itself in similar circumstances then there's much less commitment to help other than on the most stringent terms which usually effect the people on the street rather than the people responsible for the situation.

There's no free lunch here in letting Greece drop out of the Euro. Not only will it have huge implications for the Greeks, but it will have huge implications for other countries on the periphery in economic terms. Spain and Portugal should be looking over their shoulders. Two other points - once the EU drops one of its own then that drives a huge hole through the EU community. Imagine the scenario in the States where one particularly poorly performing State (in economic terms) is told by Washington, "sorry guys, you're out of the US Dollar" - that's what we are talking about here.

Secondly, let's remember the role of the institutions in this mess. It was Goldman Sachs who devised products that allowed Greece and other nations to hide their true indebtedness to meet Euro convergence criteria. Products which subsequently proved enormously costly as they unraveled in the chaos of 2007/8.

Greece needs reform for sure, but the least expensive way of dealing with the problem is retaining the Euro and their EU membership, supporting their economy (which in EU terms is tiny) and seeking reform especially in tax collection.

To be fair though, by the banks being bailed out, we're largely meaning they were nationalised. The Greeks haven't been 'taken over' by the Troika, but they are being given incredibly cheap finance, albeit with certain conditions attached.

I dare say the nationalised banks had similar conditions attached to their public ownership, and I dare say many tax payers would regard that as perfectly ok.

Syreza are being shown up for the sham they are here to be honest. They got in on the back of a huge number of promises they had no hope of ever keeping, and I hope a deal is struck if only to stop the country veering even more radical politically than they already are.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Καλό ταξίδι στην πανέμορφη Ελλάδα. Που θα πάτε; Στα νησιά;

My Greek's a bit rusty mate, there's a bit of a satellite delay between reading and understanding at the moment, so I'll reply in English !

Staying overnight in Athens at a friends house and then fly out to Leros. We'll be bumming about round Leros, Lipsoi, Agathonissi and possibly Patmos in the Dodecanese

I fly to Rhodes on July 1st.

Terrific.

If it's not been sorted by then, take more cash, both Euros and Sterling, than you would do normally. Anecdotally, some ATMs are being emptied much quicker than normal which ties in with what you read about money being taken out of the banks.

My life ambition is to settle in Greece. Here's hoping

... and it's a fine ambition to have. I've lived,worked and holidayed all over the place and Greece is the only place I think I could permanently emigrate to. It's also the only language I've made any real attempt to get to grips with since leaving school.

 

[kithnou]

My Greek's a bit rusty mate, there's a bit of a satellite delay between reading and understanding at the moment, so I'll reply in English !

Staying overnight in Athens at a friends house and then fly out to Leros. We'll be bumming about round Leros, Lipsoi, Agathonissi and possibly Patmos in the Dodecanese




If it's not been sorted by then, take more cash, both Euros and Sterling, than you would do normally. Anecdotally, some ATMs are being emptied much quicker than normal which ties in with what you read about money being taken out of the banks.




... and it's a fine ambition to have. I've lived,worked and holidayed all over the place and Greece is the only place I think I could permanently emigrate to. It's also the only language I've made any real attempt to get to grips with since leaving school.

Brilliant the lot of you. Είσαστε υπέροχοι! Μπράβο παλικάρια.

 

[Woolly Blue]

*Phones Restaurant Dilaila Katsadia to warn of likely default risk

*Tells Christo to ignore any people with Scouse accents ringing

 

[Toffeelover]

In Greece, if a worker is employed in mining, steel making or even a hairdresser they can retire if they are a final salary scheme at the age of 50 and get a pension off 100% of their final salary.

Pensions and public salaries take 80% of government spending!

 

[The Esk]

In Greece, if a worker is employed in mining, steel making or even a hairdresser they can retire if they are a final salary scheme at the age of 50 and get a pension off 100% of their final salary.

Pensions and public salaries take 80% of government spending!

Where is this data from mate?

I do not recognise them from anything I have read elsewhere.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

No need mate
We'll just sit in here

running up our tab.

"Pay you next year ?"

"No problem"

The visual lack of bent over rsj on the roof of that building suggests that Greek has paid his building tax.

 

[Lids1978]

Where is this data from mate?

I do not recognise them from anything I have read elsewhere.

The truth is somewhere in between though mate so even if his figures are off mehh...you guys were right to stay with the pound. Fuming over here from a personal fiscal point of view since we gave up the punt and joined that jarg collective currency. Personally hope the Greeks leave and we follow as I don't feel the benefits. I could explain further at another juncture but Royal (can't believe I used that word) Ascot etc mate!

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I am pro-European but I can't really understand currency union between nations that are so diverse, where they expose themselves to one another's frailties and unpredictability.

Euro is destined to fail. Shame for individuals whom will lose the most.

 

[Toffeelover]

Where is this data from mate?

I do not recognise them from anything I have read elsewhere.

In the Times today.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Is right. Hangover free too right?

It's better from the north defo, lived in Thessaloniki for a bit. In the south they call it raki. In Cyprus it's tsivinia. Puts hairs on your chest.

My life ambition is to settle in Greece. Here's hoping. It getting out of the euro would help that happen but the suffering by the average person initially would be bad, and they've suffered enough.

So many happy memories of Greece and its people. I have a few close friends up in the north. Those greek love monkeys are really ace. Did you know they have about six different words for Love.

Special moments spent under the stars eating wild boar roasted over an open fire whilst sipping Tsipouro and putting the world to rights. I hope it all works out for them - great people and a truly amazing country.

 

[bizzaro]

In Greece, if a worker is employed in mining, steel making or even a hairdresser they can retire if they are a final salary scheme at the age of 50 and get a pension off 100% of their final salary.

Pensions and public salaries take 80% of government spending!

Where is this data from mate?

I do not recognise them from anything I have read elsewhere.

The tax evasion rate is the highest in Europe and probably amongst the highest of the world.

They also do have these crazy retirement ages and pensions when its obvious their government can't afford it - due to the tax evasion.

This Greece thing has been 20 years in the making. Or more.

In Northern Europe the retirement ages are like 68 or something.

Greece didn't make the structural reforms it needed to in the early 1990's and now its paid the price.

Italy started to wake up to this fact too.

 

[Librarian]

The tax evasion rate is the highest in Europe and probably amongst the highest of the world.

They also do have these crazy retirement ages and pensions when its obvious their government can't afford it - due to the tax evasion.

This Greece thing has been 20 years in the making. Or more.

In Northern Europe the retirement ages are like 68 or something.

Greece didn't make the structural reforms it needed to in the early 1990's and now its paid the price.

Italy started to wake up to this fact too.

Listen here Merkel, leave Antonis and Kostas alone, those olives won't grow any faster whether the two boys are in the field watching them or in the hammock eating yogurts

 

[bizzaro]

@Toffeelover

@the esk

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/retirement-age-men

In 2009 - the retirement age was 57. Last year it was 67.

Getting in line with Germany. UK and France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_age