Greatest English Club Side (MNF Ranking)

[Khalekan]

IMO the Everton side of 1966 through 1970 was a better side than the team of ’84 through ‘87.

Good and all as Reid, Bracewell, Shhedy and Stevens were, the Holy Trinity was better

 

[Deleted member 38674]

Seriously is that even a thing anymore?

Who knows?! I was just being nostalgic.

 

[Thomasc]

In fairness, they were fairly clear on their criteria and, based on that criteria, it would be hard to disagree.

Do you think that there is a case for any non Man Utd or Liverpool side being the best English side ever? I don't.

The great City, Chelsea and Arsenal sides never won a European Cup, where as the former two did - it's hard to create a reasonable set of criteria that puts any of those three above the great Utd / Liverpool sides.

Carragher said the Arsenal side was the best English side he played against. Neville said the Chelsea 04/05 side was the best English side he played against. They were certainly great teams and recognised as such, they just failed at key moments in Europe that really mattered.

yes of course there is a case.

man city won a domestic treble last season.

to date, Arsenal are the only side to go a whole season without losing.

It was far easier to win the European cup when Liverpool won it in those days. Go back and look at the teams they played on a two legged basis to get to the final. Teams like the mighty Crusaders, St Etienne and Zurich.

the European cup is exactly what it is, a cup. The best sides in their own leagues don’t even win it most years. Liverpool being an example, they year they won it and finished 5th in the premier league.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

yes of course there is a case.

man city won a domestic treble last season.

to date, Arsenal are the only side to go a whole season without losing.

It was far easier to win the European cup when Liverpool won it in those days. Go back and look at the teams they played on a two legged basis to get to the final. Teams like the mighty Crusaders, St Etienne and Zurich.

the European cup is exactly what it is, a cup. The best sides in their own leagues don’t even win it most years. Liverpool being an example, they year they won it and finished 5th in the premier league.

So you’re disputing that the European cup is the pinnacle of Football and generally defines the stature of a team?

I don’t agree, personally, but I just want to be sure that is your argument, as it appears to be.

For me, for a team to be recognised as one of the greatest then domestic and european success across a sustained period feels like the right criteria. If City continue to fail against Europe’s top sides as they have over the last 10 years then they’ll, probably rightly, never be considered one of the great sides in Football, just one of the many “nearly men”.

Arsenal’s invincible season was a great achievement, but when you consider the 12 draws, the fact they reached only one CL final across that 10 year period where they did compete for the title, it certainly is a slight against them when you start to compare them to others who have achieved a lot more.

To each their own, of course, it’s a discussion and a debate and everyone will have their preferences. I personally thought, prior to the last few seasons when City and Liverpool came along, I’d never seen a better side than that United 07-09 side with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front.

 

[Big_Duncs_Fod]

yes of course there is a case.

man city won a domestic treble last season.

to date, Arsenal are the only side to go a whole season without losing.

It was far easier to win the European cup when Liverpool won it in those days. Go back and look at the teams they played on a two legged basis to get to the final. Teams like the mighty Crusaders, St Etienne and Zurich.

the European cup is exactly what it is, a cup. The best sides in their own leagues don’t even win it most years. Liverpool being an example, they year they won it and finished 5th in the premier league.

Behave lad. The european cup is the greatest club competition to win that there is. By your logic our CWC win would then be a equivalent of winning the johnson paint trophy as we beat the mighty University College Dublin on the way.

If we'd have won a european cup you wouldn't be coming out with such crap.

 

[roydo]

Behave lad. The european cup is the greatest club competition to win that there is. By your logic our CWC win would then be a equivalent of winning the johnson paint trophy as we beat the mighty University College Dublin on the way.

If we'd have won a european cup you wouldn't be coming out with such crap.

It is far harder to win the CL than the EC, as was. That isnt to denigrate sides who won it back in the day, but the truth remains. Forest won one final against Malmo ffs.

 

[Thomasc]

Behave lad. The european cup is the greatest club competition to win that there is. By your logic our CWC win would then be a equivalent of winning the johnson paint trophy as we beat the mighty University College Dublin on the way.

If we'd have won a european cup you wouldn't be coming out with such crap.

thanks for making my point more relevant

 

[Old Blue 2]

It is far harder to win the CL than the EC, as was. That isnt to denigrate sides who won it back in the day, but the truth remains. Forest won one final against Malmo ffs.

They beat Hamburg 1-0 in the following season also.

They won it twice...

 

[Thomasc]

So you’re disputing that the European cup is the pinnacle of Football and generally defines the stature of a team?

I don’t agree, personally, but I just want to be sure that is your argument, as it appears to be.

For me, for a team to be recognised as one of the greatest then domestic and european success across a sustained period feels like the right criteria. If City continue to fail against Europe’s top sides as they have over the last 10 years then they’ll, probably rightly, never be considered one of the great sides in Football, just one of the many “nearly men”.

Arsenal’s invincible season was a great achievement, but when you consider the 12 draws, the fact they reached only one CL final across that 10 year period where they did compete for the title, it certainly is a slight against them when you start to compare them to others who have achieved a lot more.

To each their own, of course, it’s a discussion and a debate and everyone will have their preferences. I personally thought, prior to the last few seasons when City and Liverpool came along, I’d never seen a better side than that United 07-09 side with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front.

must harder to win now than it was then.

but as I said, the best sides don’t always win it, it’s a cup.

 

[roydo]

They beat Hamburg 1-0 in the following season also.

They won it twice...

Yeah, I know. Hamburg with Keegan as well.

The fact remains though, it is harder to win the CL. The very best sides in Europe are in it. In the old EC, not all were.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

Yeah, I know. Hamburg with Keegan as well.

The fact remains though, it is harder to win the CL. The very best sides in Europe are in it. In the old EC, not all were.

Isn’t there an argument for the other side though, those being that, back then at least, the participants were actually Champions of their domestic leagues.

For example, when Liverpool won the European Cup in 1984, the 8 teams that comprised the Quarter Finalists included Dinamo Minsk (Belarus), Dinamo Bucharest (Romania), Rapid Vienna (Austria), BFC Dynamo (East Germany) and Dundee United (Scotland), alongside your more traditional “big” teams such as Liverpool, Roma and Benfica.

Those teams had some fantastic players and those countries can feel aggrieved that, thanks to Platini and UEFA, the money and European elite in Football are now confined to 5 leagues. There is an argument that it was a tougher competition to win back then as you had to win your league first to even enter.

 

[roydo]

Isn’t there an argument for the other side though, those being that, back then at least, the participants were actually Champions of their domestic leagues.

For example, when Liverpool won the European Cup in 1984, the 8 teams that comprised the Quarter Finalists included Dinamo Minsk (Belarus), Dinamo Bucharest (Romania), Rapid Vienna (Austria), BFC Dynamo (East Germany) and Dundee United (Scotland), alongside your more traditional “big” teams such as Liverpool, Roma and Benfica.

Those teams had some fantastic players and those countries can feel aggrieved that, thanks to Platini and UEFA, the money and European elite in Football are now confined to 5 leagues. There is an argument that it was a tougher competition to win back then as you had to win your league first to even enter.

Thats a fair point. But I would contest that the top 4 teams in Spain, England and Germany are better than the champions of Iceland.

So the current CL format gets the best European clubs playing against each other. Even if they didnt win their actual leagues.

 

[Deleted member 38674]

Thats a fair point. But I would contest that the top 4 teams in Spain, England and Germany are better than the champions of Iceland.

So the current CL format gets the best European clubs playing against each other. Even if they didnt win their actual leagues.

I don’t disagree. I like the format now, it’s certainly best for the spectacle and prestige but, for me, doesn’t allow for an even keel outside of those teams from the top 5 leagues.

You use the champions of Iceland as an example. NOW that’s certainly the case as there has been 30 years worth of cash and resources pumped into those leagues deemed more fortunate by Platini, and not into Icelandic Football. The best Icelandic players, such as Gudjohnsen, may have stayed at KR Reykjavik to compete in the European Cup, rather than leave to play in England. The Premier League has certainly benefitted from that.

In the 27 years since the Champions League format came in, there have been only 3 finalists from outside Europes big 5 leagues, Ajax (x2) and Porto. In the 27 years before that there were 19 finalists from clubs outside Europes big 5 leagues including the Champions of Scotland, Yugoslavia, Belgium, Greece, Portugal, Sweden, Netherlands and Romania.

Those teams included some fabulous players, everyone remembers the most recent example, the Red Star Belgrade side which had the likes of Savicevic, Prosinecki, Jugovic and Mihajlovic who would all go on to have great careers with Inter, Real Madrid and AC Milan thanks to the change in format

 

[Nymzee]

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

I always thought it was harder to win when it was the old European cup because you actually had to have won your league.