Goals on Sunday

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ianefc said:
It was 2-0 and him gone the next day. It was as comfortable 2-0 as you'll see as well. That first season was great. Was never going to be maintained by a manager who have proven he can't organise a defence.
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And a defence who cant organize themselves either. Was always a bad combo.
 
ianefc said:
It was 2-0 and him gone the next day. It was as comfortable 2-0 as you'll see as well. That first season was great. Was never going to be maintained by a manager who have proven he can't organise a defence.
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I still believe, if he had got rid of Dennis Lawrence and signed a top defensive coach after the 2nd season, he'd still be here.

Martinez biggest flaws were he was too nice, too loyal, too stubborn and not ruthless enough. Some of his ideas were good, but he needed someone to rein him in, like most good managerial partnerships, but instead, he surrounded himself with yes men. I thought the same thing with Moyes when he got Steve Round. He never really replaced Alan Irvine.
 
Papa Shango said:
That happened though! He had a good season and a bad season, he was well within his rights to get a third season. Once it became apparent he was jibbed off, that's how it should be.
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That's fine if you want to look at it that way, I see it as 18 months wasted. Those 4 defeats on the spin over Christmas 14/15 should've seen him being shown the door. If we want to act like a big club then you get shut, look at Mourinho at Chelsea last year and he's their most successful ever manager.

I'll ask you a question, if he never got offered a new contract after season 1, so by that disastrous Christmas he's 18 months into a 3 year deal, do you think we'd of pulled the trigger?

If the answer is yes, then that means we stuck with him for 18 months because Kenwright was skint :hayee:

Great times.
 

Kever10 said:
I still believe, if he had got rid of Dennis Lawrence and signed a top defensive coach after the 2nd season, he'd still be here.

Martinez biggest flaws were he was too nice, too loyal, too stubborn and not ruthless enough. Some of his ideas were good, but he needed someone to rein him in, like most good managerial partnerships, but instead, he surrounded himself with yes men. I thought the same thing with Moyes when he got Steve Round. He never really replaced Alan Irvine.
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Dennis Lawrence was not and never has been a defensive coach. He was a development coach. Whatever that means. Surely coaches are supposed to develop things anyway...

But yeah he wasnt a defensive coach. He was a coach who happened to play in defence in his playing days. The same way that David Unsworth isnt a defensive coach.
 
ianefc said:
That's fine if you want to look at it that way, I see it as 18 months wasted. Those 4 defeats on the spin over Christmas 14/15 should've seen him being shown the door. If we want to act like a big club then you get shut, look at Mourinho at Chelsea last year and he's their most successful ever manager.

I'll ask you a question, if he never got offered a new contract after season 1, so by that disastrous Christmas he's 18 months into a 3 year deal, do you think we'd of pulled the trigger?

If the answer is yes, then that means we stuck with him for 18 months because Kenwright was skint :hayee:

Great times.
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Does it matter? Like really?

He is gone. Paid off. Gone.

Some good memories, some horrific ones.

Not sure this thread really serves much purpose anymore.
 
Kever10 said:
I still believe, if he had got rid of Dennis Lawrence and signed a top defensive coach after the 2nd season, he'd still be here.

Martinez biggest flaws were he was too nice, too loyal, too stubborn and not ruthless enough. Some of his ideas were good, but he needed someone to rein him in, like most good managerial partnerships, but instead, he surrounded himself with yes men. I thought the same thing with Moyes when he got Steve Round. He never really replaced Alan Irvine.
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Was he with him at Wigan in 09/10 when Martinez got Wigan to concede 70+ goals after Steve Bruce on 08/09 had them conceding only 45?
 
davek said:
Martinez years - quick taxonomy:

Pros

  • Shifted us from an overly route one game to one more fitting for the 21st century. A style that most of our present good form has been built on.

  • Put together a formidable attacking unit that scored a lot of goals

  • Took Everton from 6th to 5th in his first season here.

  • Set a club PL points record that looks like it will stand the test of time for a few seasons to come, at least.

  • Gave us a good showing in seasons two and three in cup competitions.

  • Took the chance to spend an arm and a leg on Lukaku which proved to be the most astute gamble in the last 30 years. A player who has set records for us scoring and will hand us a massive transfer kitty when he's eventfully sold for well over twice his cost.

Cons

  • The football in his second season especially became laboriously slow and frustrating and made many crave for the hoofball of Moyes to return.

  • Did not take serious steps to sort out a steadily weakening defensive unit.

  • Took Everton from an established top 6/7 club to two midtable finishes.

  • Failed to grab a couple of glorious chances last season to secure our first silverware for 21 years.

  • Brought in a good few players who were nowhere near good enough to take us to the next level.

Whether you're pro or anti Martinez, that has to be a fair summation of the mans time here. Although I'm sure some tortured souls who won't be happy until they're dancing on his grave will find lots of fault with the first part of that assessment. Thankfully the rational majority - I feel confident - won't.
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Very fair that.


Dave's account's been hacked.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Lol. From the man who spent two seasons refusing to accept a single negative comment about Martinez. We were the entertainers, performance over points, 5th is same as 15th, Cleverley is the answer. And you label others as unreasonable.
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On the basis of fact: that the man had proven conclusively that he could get a great season out of those players he had, and the fact that they showed every sign of being able to get back on track in the first half of last season.

You, on the other hand, have flip flopped in the space of one match result on your criticism of Koeman. Now that is a staggering lack of evidence and rigour to base your decision on. Did you relay think I and others wouldn't remember that 180 degree turn?

Pfffft!
 

He's gone lads, history, he did his best didn't work out, you live you learn.

The club bought into his philosphey, we knew what we were getting and I backed him until he left on that basis.

He's never said a bad word against us, even though I'd say he was gutted, he's alright by me.
 

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