Goals on Sunday

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Just popped in to this thread
Seems to have nothing to do with goals on Sunday and everything to do with a spill over argument from the usual protagonists about Roberto Martinez who by the way is no longer here
Can't we gave a special thread fir Martinez bashing/supporting and leave the rest of the place in peace

Sorry I wasn't going to get involved but then someone set of my "Alcaraz Alarm" and I went into auto-rant mode

 

[roydo]

He was a nice bloke who couldn't cut it as Everton manager, but he did some good things and gave us some good moments along the way, until he was rightly let go and we got a new manager in

That seems the most apt description of his time as manager to me. I'm sure Dave will think I'm not effusing enough praise and Ian will think I'm being too lenient. That would just prove to me that I've got it correct tbh

Yep, just about on the money Mikey mate.

 

[davek]

Martinez years - quick taxonomy:

Pros

• Shifted us from an overly route one game to one more fitting for the 21st century. A style that most of our present good form has been built on.

• Put together a formidable attacking unit that scored a lot of goals

• Took Everton from 6th to 5th in his first season here.

• Set a club PL points record that looks like it will stand the test of time for a few seasons to come, at least.

• Gave us a good showing in seasons two and three in cup competitions.

• Took the chance to spend an arm and a leg on Lukaku which proved to be the most astute gamble in the last 30 years. A player who has set records for us scoring and will hand us a massive transfer kitty when he's eventfully sold for well over twice his cost.

Cons

• The football in his second season especially became laboriously slow and frustrating and made many crave for the hoofball of Moyes to return.

• Did not take serious steps to sort out a steadily weakening defensive unit.

• Took Everton from an established top 6/7 club to two midtable finishes.

• Failed to grab a couple of glorious chances last season to secure our first silverware for 21 years.

• Brought in a good few players who were nowhere near good enough to take us to the next level.

Whether you're pro or anti Martinez, that has to be a fair summation of the mans time here. Although I'm sure some tortured souls who won't be happy until they're dancing on his grave will find lots of fault with the first part of that assessment. Thankfully the rational majority - I feel confident - won't.

 

[MikeH72]

You seem to be a self appointed one man witch-finder general for anyone who gives Martinez respect. It's very odd I must say.

Lol

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Martinez years - quick taxonomy:

Pros

• Shifted us from an overly route one game to one more fitting for the 21st century. A style that most of our present good form has been built on.

• Put together a formidable attacking unit that scored a lot of goals

• Took Everton from 6th to 5th in his first season here.

• Set a club PL points record that looks like it will stand the test of time for a few seasons to come, at least.

• Gave us a good showing in seasons two and three in cup competitions.

• Took the chance to spend an arm and a leg on Lukaku which proved to be the most astute gamble in the last 30 years. A player who has set records for us scoring and will hand us a massive transfer kitty when he's eventfully sold for well over twice his cost.

Cons

• The football in his second season especially became laboriously slow and frustrating and made many crave for the hoofball of Moyes to return.

• Did not take serious steps to sort out a steadily weakening defensive unit.

• Took Everton from an established top 6/7 club to two midtable finishes.

• Failed to grab a couple of glorious chances last season to secure our first silverware for 21 years.

• Brought in a good few players who were nowhere near good enough to take us to the next level.

Whether you're pro or anti Martinez, that has to be a fair summation of the mans time here. Although I'm sure some tortured souls who won't be happy until they're dancing in his grave will find lots of fault with the first part of that assessment. Thankfully the rational majority - I feel confident - won't.

I would disagree with one point, we went out of both cups at the first stage in season 2

He did get to Quarter Final in season 1 but we also crashed out of the Milk Cup to Fulham in the early rounds (Notable for being the game where Lukaku was wide open and Deulofeu decided to shoot instead, because Del, and I had a rage attack)

 

[Kever10]

So @Kever10 you think it's perfectly fine for a manager to sign one of his ex players, who he knows is injured and just happens to be one of his mates, to a contract so that he can get treatment on his new clubs dime? There's nothing about that at all which doesn't strike you as dodgy or sinister in any way?

I'd be interested to see people like yourselves reaction if someone like Harry Redknapp did something similar...

Again, you seem to be stating all of this as though it is a fact, when there is no evidence to suggest it was anything other than a free transfer, back up signing of a player he liked and trusted. But obviously you know better.

To any Pro Martinez person, defending him over fatuous things like Antolin Alcaraz only hurts your case. It makes it look like you're grasping at straws

There are quite a few legitimate ways you can defend Martinez without having to resort to desperate things like suggesting Antolin Alcaraz wasn't crap

Who are you exactly, the Martinez police? I believe I stated my case, which incidentally was neither a pro Martinez nor pro Alcaraz case, but a reasoned response that neither were as bad as other people had made out in some ridiculous over the top statements. Worst Everton player of the premier league era. Good Lord. And you have the cheek to say anything I say is hurting my case.

It seems like once you're a Martinez fan you're a Martinez fan.

Not a fan, just not a hater like some others, and I believe some of the positive things he did need pointing out rather than glossed over in a blanket "it never happened" rewrite of the history.

 

[roydo]

Martinez years - quick taxonomy:

Pros

• Shifted us from an overly route one game to one more fitting for the 21st century. A style that most of our present good form has been built on.

• Put together a formidable attacking unit that scored a lot of goals

• Took Everton from 6th to 5th in his first season here.

• Set a club PL points record that looks like it will stand the test of time for a few seasons to come, at least.

• Gave us a good showing in seasons two and three in cup competitions.

• Took the chance to spend an arm and a leg on Lukaku which proved to be the most astute gamble in the last 30 years. A player who has set records for us scoring and will hand us a massive transfer kitty when he's eventfully sold for well over twice his cost.

Cons

• The football in his second season especially became laboriously slow and frustrating and made many crave for the hoofball of Moyes to return.

• Did not take serious steps to sort out a steadily weakening defensive unit.

• Took Everton from an established top 6/7 club to two midtable finishes.

• Failed to grab a couple of glorious chances last season to secure our first silverware for 21 years.

• Brought in a good few players who were nowhere near good enough to take us to the next level.

Whether you're pro or anti Martinez, that has to be a fair summation of the mans time here. Although I'm sure some tortured souls who won't be happy until they're dancing on his grave will find lots of fault with the first part of that assessment. Thankfully the rational majority - I feel confident - won't.

Fair enough that.

 

[davek]

I would disagree with one point, we went out of both cups at the first stage in season 2

He did get to Quarter Final in season 1 but we also crashed out of the Milk Cup to Fulham in the early rounds (Notable for being the game where Lukaku was wide open and Deulofeu decided to shoot instead, because Del, and I had a rage attack)

I'm taking into consideration his relativrly short period here. Two SFs domestically and a fairly extended European run is enough to put it in the plus column.

 

[bicycleheader]

@Mikey_Fitzgerald

That's some unnaturally ridiculous nonsense on Alcaraz.

At least most conspiracy theories are so silly they are funny, but that's just a bizarre rant.

Manager buys player to get treatment for him paid by new club in massive show of disrespect to club and fans......What are you on? is this a side effect of the lingering rage at Duffy being let go?

Darkly cynical..... :O

We signed a cheap defender with injury problems that played crap for us and was a failure. Wouldn't be the first signing of that kind in football and won't be the last. Truly strange to read anything more into it.

EDIT: However I do agree with your very balanced rating of our ex boss

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I'm taking into consideration his relativrly short period here. Two SFs domestically and a fairly extended European run is enough to put it in the plus column.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying you got season 1 and 2 mixed up. Anything from Quarter Final upwards is a "run" for me

 

[DanEFC92]

Martinez years - quick taxonomy:

Pros

• Shifted us from an overly route one game to one more fitting for the 21st century. A style that most of our present good form has been built on.

• Put together a formidable attacking unit that scored a lot of goals

• Took Everton from 6th to 5th in his first season here.

• Set a club PL points record that looks like it will stand the test of time for a few seasons to come, at least.

• Gave us a good showing in seasons two and three in cup competitions.

• Took the chance to spend an arm and a leg on Lukaku which proved to be the most astute gamble in the last 30 years. A player who has set records for us scoring and will hand us a massive transfer kitty when he's eventfully sold for well over twice his cost.

Cons

• The football in his second season especially became laboriously slow and frustrating and made many crave for the hoofball of Moyes to return.

• Did not take serious steps to sort out a steadily weakening defensive unit.

• Took Everton from an established top 6/7 club to two midtable finishes.

• Failed to grab a couple of glorious chances last season to secure our first silverware for 21 years.

• Brought in a good few players who were nowhere near good enough to take us to the next level.

Whether you're pro or anti Martinez, that has to be a fair summation of the mans time here. Although I'm sure some tortured souls who won't be happy until they're dancing on his grave will find lots of fault with the first part of that assessment. Thankfully the rational majority - I feel confident - won't.

Cons:

Refused to drop Howard until it was too late.

Woeful home form in final 2 years.

 

[davek]

I like the bloke. I always will for bringing Kendall back into the fold.

As a manager he obviously has his flaws and was rightly sacked.

Doesnt mean I dont think hes a good bloke.

I think you'll find you have to hate him mate. That's the only thing that will get him off your back.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

@Mikey_Fitzgerald

That's some unnaturally ridiculous nonsense on Alcaraz.

At least most conspiracy theories are so silly they are funny, but that's just a bizarre rant.

Manager buys player to get treatment for him paid by new club in massive show of disrespect to club and fans......What are you on? is this a side effect of the lingering rage at Duffy being let go?

Darkly cynical..... :O

We signed a cheap defender with injury problems that played crap for us and was a failure. Wouldn't be the first signing of that kind in football and won't be the last. Truly strange to read anything more into it.

Believe what you want to believe of it mate, but I know where my opinion lies and I feel justified in thinking it

 

[bicycleheader]

Just popped in to this thread
Seems to have nothing to do with goals on Sunday and everything to do with a spill over argument from the usual protagonists about Roberto Martinez who by the way is no longer here
Can't we gave a special thread fir Martinez bashing/supporting and leave the rest of the place in peace

In fairness the OP started the thread specifically because Martinez was on it...No?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Not a fan, just not a hater like some others, and I believe some of the positive things he did need pointing out rather than glossed over in a blanket "it never happened" rewrite of the history.

Of this we agree

I just believe Alcaraz was not a positive