Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

[Pittsburgh Footy]

The Democrats are soooo bad at politicking. And they put up weak candidates to boot. They could be setting the narrative rather than trying to deflect or ignore the pseudo-nonsense like CRT.

1) We were bad at politicking even in normal times (for the sake of argument, let's call that pre-Obama)
2) Post-Obama, post-Trump, we are even worse. Like how we are currently defending corners.

We need to make arguments in bite-sized pieces, even if it means dumbing down or watering down what we are trying to accomplish, b/c going with big, broad concepts are too "progressive" for most people.

And the GOP are experts at understanding this.

 

[verreauxi]

Some of the hot takes in this thread are like whataboutery 2.0

 

[JimmyJeffers]

It would be nice if you read my replies to you rather than seemingly copy and paste into a discussion neither of you have cared to joined, other than to score internet points, prevenger especially.

For that fact I'm out with both of you , more than happy to discuss the matter at hand rather than pedantic posts that are a waste of everyone's time.

No worries mate. Keep us updated with reviews of the next Facebook videos you watch.

 

[Ghost Rider]

They weren’t “shipping their own people from all over the continent” though - that role was almost exclusively performed by Europeans.

Nor were they “treating them as property”, something which again can only be understood n the context of the meaning of that word on European terms.

Your argument is terrible, and appears to be centered on the wish to blame people of African descent for the existence of chattel slavery (at least based on how you keep coming back to it). As I said, almost everyone accepts that some role was played by some local elites, but it wasn’t vital to the process. Why you are making this argument is something only you can explain, but it does sound dodgy to me.

Right so you are disagreeing with history now then, I get where you are coming from.

I still don't understand what all of this is in aid of? Either I am wrong in saying Africans sold their people to the west , therefore it would disagree with facts or I am right and you are discussing a pointless discussion basically? If I'm right then why are you still disagreeing with me?!

I can give you more academic links if you think I'm wrong in saying it, I don't mind.

 

[Ghost Rider]

No worries mate. Keep us updated with reviews of the next Facebook videos you watch.

I don't have social media accounts , other than that sure.

I'm sure BBC bitesize , the kids thing will be helpful though to you if you don't believe me, that's aimed at kids ?

 

[Ghost Rider]

I ask again, what does the point you are trying to make, that "there were bad people on both sides of the slave trade" have to do with CRT?

I think at this point it's way off the original point so no purpose in backtracking to just end up here again!

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Right so you are disagreeing with history now then, I get where you are coming from.

I still don't understand what all of this is in aid of? Either I am wrong in saying Africans sold their people to the west , therefore it would disagree with facts or I am right and you are discussing a pointless discussion basically? If I'm right then why are you still disagreeing with me?!

I can give you more academic links if you think I'm wrong in saying it, I don't mind.

Let's say for the sake of argument that most people were enslaved by Africans and sold as slaves to the West.

Why does that matter to you?

And what does that have to do with CRT in the US?

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

I think at this point it's way off the original point so no purpose in backtracking to just end up here again!

Huh?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Let's say for the sake of argument that most people were enslaved by Africans and sold as slaves to the West.

Why does that matter to you?

And what does that have to do with CRT in the US?

Like I say we are so far off the original point that there is no reason to backtrack now and risk just repeating ourselves.

Just leave it there as there isn't an impasse or middle ground.

 

[wm02]

The Democrats are soooo bad at politicking. And they put up weak candidates to boot. They could be setting the narrative rather than trying to deflect or ignore the pseudo-nonsense like CRT.

FWIW, I live in Maryland and am in the same media market and saw a fair number of the TV ads—-my perception is that Youngkin’s ads were much more effective at connecting to the concerns of the electorate (schools, for example).
And he’s like nine feet tall.
Tough for McAuliffe to counter that

 

[tsubaki]

Right so you are disagreeing with history now then, I get where you are coming from.

I still don't understand what all of this is in aid of? Either I am wrong in saying Africans sold their people to the west , therefore it would disagree with facts or I am right and you are discussing a pointless discussion basically? If I'm right then why are you still disagreeing with me?!

I can give you more academic links if you think I'm wrong in saying it, I don't mind.

I think you should take your own advice and read other people’s posts. If you had, you’d have noticed that nowhere have I said what you claim I have.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think you should take your own advice and read other people’s posts. If you had, you’d have noticed that nowhere have I said what you claim I have.

Which is what exactly?

I've only said one thing repeatedly!!

 

[tsubaki]

Which is what exactly?

I've only said one thing repeatedly!!

Yes, and no one here has disagreed that some local elites sold people to slavers. What people have tried to point out to you is that doing that wasn’t equivalent to what the slavers were doing.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yes, and no one here has disagreed that some local elites sold people to slavers. What people have tried to point out to you is that doing that wasn’t equivalent to what the slavers were doing.

You mean selling their people as property?

I'd argue if there was noone selling their own people to begin with there wouldn't have been much of a trade.

Africans were slavers just as much as the ones who owned the ships.

The rest of the inhumane crimes came from the ones who owned the plantations and farms.

And that is the crux of it that you overlooked. It's not a 2 sided subject. The 'slavers' were both the Africans who sold them and the westerners who bought them and shipped them across the ocean. Both as bad as each other.

The ones who bought them at the other end, they were worse for everything that followed afterwards.

All in all a horrible period of world history.

 

[tsubaki]

You mean selling their people as property?

I'd argue if there was noone selling their own people to begin with there wouldn't have been much of a trade.

Africans were slavers just as much as the ones who owned the ships.

The rest of the inhumane crimes came from the ones who owned the plantations and farms.

And that is the crux of it that you overlooked. It's not a 2 sided subject. The 'slavers' were both the Africans who sold them and the westerners who bought them and shipped them across the ocean. Both as bad as each other.

The ones who bought them at the other end, they were worse for everything that followed afterwards.

All in all a horrible period of world history.

This is what I and others are on about.

They weren’t - they didn’t organise it, finance it, pay for the ships or the infrastructure, or give it the legal or military protection nor was it a key part of a trade system they’d established. Indeed the local elites weren’t actually required; the slavers did capture people themselves rather than buying them.

To say they are the same as the people who did is at best deeply misleading.