Current Affairs Free Speech

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

We're talking about Ollie's case.

I vouch for a case-by-case reading of things. And regarding your other examples I support the innocent-until-proven-guilty concept. Stokes's 8-match ban was already served by the time he was found guilty of affray. I feel that's the wrong way round. Because had he been innocent, he would still have lost those matches.

Sorry if bringing other relevant factors into the debate confuses you. For somebody who claims to be all about nuance, you don't seem to like it when others apply it to weaken your argument.

 

[dholliday]

Nonsense, it's exactly what you've been saying for the last few days. Once you deconstruct your 'message', and remove the bombast, this is exactly what's left of your argument, such as it is.

If it's exactly what I've been saying, then show me the quotes where I said those things.

Just one example of your OTT-reading: "anybody in their teens should get a pass for racist/sexist comments they make"

My actual post: "They shouldn't be punished at all for mere stupid nasty jokes made a decade ago. They should be admonished and they should prove they understand such comments are unacceptable now. That's it."

That's not the same as a pass, is it? And you also didn't take into account the decade-ago factor.

i.e. you are transforming my opinions into an extreme caricature, to make your opposition to them more palatable, as otherwise your opposition to them makes little sense. You are in effect debating yourself, not me.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

It’s a tricky one the Ollie Robinson one. I think if we were all held accountable for everything we said when we were 18, it would spell trouble for everyone.

On the other hand I reckon most didn’t use that type of racist, sexist, homophobic language either, and certainly didn’t publish it for all to see on Twitter.

There’s a question for me around setting an example to 18 year olds about their online activity. Employers now will routinely scour candidates social media accounts for dodgy stuff, so there’s a good lesson here for just not posting sketchy stuff online.

Fact that he’s been suspended is not surprising. If I posted some of that stuff online right now, I’d be sacked - end of story. So it’s really a question of the statute of limitations on these things, and how accountable we should be for prior transgressions.

According to @dholliday, this stands at a decade. No more, no less lol

 

[dholliday]

According to @dholliday, this stands at a decade. No more, no less lol

#debatingyourself

 

[ForeverBlue92]

It’s a tricky one the Ollie Robinson one. I think if we were all held accountable for everything we said when we were 18, it would spell trouble for everyone.

On the other hand I reckon most didn’t use that type of racist, sexist, homophobic language either, and certainly didn’t publish it for all to see on Twitter.

There’s a question for me around setting an example to 18 year olds about their online activity. Employers now will routinely scour candidates social media accounts for dodgy stuff, so there’s a good lesson here for just not posting sketchy stuff online.

Fact that he’s been suspended is not surprising. If I posted some of that stuff online right now, I’d be sacked - end of story. So it’s really a question of the statute of limitations on these things, and how accountable we should be for prior transgressions.

The Far Left Brigade on social media quickly forget everyone even themselves has a past.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[dholliday]

Sorry if bringing other relevant factors into the debate confuses you. For somebody who claims to be all about nuance, you don't seem to like it when others apply it to weaken your argument.

That's not nuance, that's deflection.

 

[dholliday]

The Far Left Brigade on social media quickly forget everyone even themselves has a past.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

good post, mate.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

good post, mate.

Nah, it was just hysterical nonsense. Actually very disrespectful towards Martin Niemoller misusing his words in this context.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

That's not nuance, that's deflection.

Oh dear me, it's really not.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

#debatingyourself

Your. Own. Words.

 

[dholliday]

Fact that he’s been suspended is not surprising. If I posted some of that stuff online right now, I’d be sacked - end of story. So it’s really a question of the statute of limitations on these things, and how accountable we should be for prior transgressions.

If you posted it right now is the key. What about if you posted it 10 years ago, and today you are a much more mature fair bloke, but then your company catches wind of it and suspends you (rather than simply talks to you about it to see if you still hold those views).

Fair, or no? Potential road to fascism? History tells us Mao/Stalin-eras held their people to similar degrees of purity. If a comrade wrote anything against the doctrine of that time, even if it was a decade ago, he would be punished.

 

[Amw79]

The Far Left Brigade on social media quickly forget everyone even themselves has a past.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I don’t really know what the bit in bold means. Social media is a place where you can find an extreme view of anything, anything at all - but most people aren’t at those extremes, and they detract from any serious discussion.

 

[dead_soft]

If you posted it right now is the key. What about if you posted it 10 years ago, and today you are a much more mature fair bloke, but then your company catches wind of it and suspends you (rather than simply talks to you about it to see if you still hold those views).

Fair, or no? Potential road to fascism? History tells us Mao/Stalin-eras held their people to similar degrees of purity. If a comrade wrote anything against the doctrine of that time, even if it was a decade ago, he would be punished.

Come on mate, don't use examples from previous history. Vote to judge everything on a case by case basis

 

[dholliday]

Come on mate, don't use examples from previous history. Vote to judge everything on a case by case basis

I am. I didn't mention any other specific case.

Wider to that, I'm also discussing possible repercussions of the cancel culture we see today.

Road to fascism? What do you think, soft lad?

 

[dead_soft]

I am. I didn't mention any other specific case.

Wider to that, I'm also discussing possible repercussions of the cancel culture we see today.

Road to fascism? What do you think, soft lad?

Oh so you can bring broad strokes things but not very specific similar cases, got you.

I think it very much isn't a road to fascism and, as I said, I don't believe cancel culture is even close to a useful term unless you're trying to purposefully muddy the waters.