Final League Position

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

How many of the above were big earners.

With the exception of Button I reckon they were all on a decent wedge don't you?

Or do you think Crouch, Woodgate, Keane, Pav et al were all signed on the cheap?

Stop it Brenna ffs, you're trying to argue black is white here.

 

[Allezfan]

No-ones saying that you can.

However, would our situation be improved or weakened by adding that £17M (20% of our current turnover) to the clubs coffers?

Improved, obviously.

But not enough to win the league or the CL.

Where as we can win the europa league without that money.

So if our choice is next year we are in the europa league and finish 6th and next year we're not and finish 4th, I'll take the former. Because the europa gives us a chance to win a trophy.

 

[Bungle]

No-ones saying that you can.

However, would our situation be improved or weakened by adding that £17M (20% of our current turnover) to the clubs coffers?

What would greatly improve it is if we knew how to run a business

 

[Essex Blue]

4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th.

8th, 7th, 7th, 6th.

We've got 61 points twice in the PL in 2005 it got us 4th, in 2010 it got us 8th.

All that shows is that there have been massive variances within seasons. It doesn't suggest constant improvement from all clubs, or even a set of particular clubs.

How many points did the 4th place team get in the season before we got 4th in 2005? Was it smaller than the 61 points we amassed in 2005?

Football is a mental game. The fact that we finsihed 4th in 2005 should prove this. There is no constant progression to talk of. Are Arsenal better now than in 2002? Or even 2007?

Football is far more complicated than that. Clubs do not necessarily improve year on year, even when they have investment, look at City and Liverpool.

 

[Allezfan]

All that shows is that there have been massive variances within seasons. It doesn't suggest constant improvement from all clubs, or even a set of particular clubs.

How many points did the 4th place team get in the season before we got 4th in 2005? Was it smaller than the 61 points we amassed in 2005?

Football is a mental game. The fact that we finsihed 4th in 2005 should prove this. There is no constant progression to talk of. Are Arsenal better now than in 2002? Or even 2007?

Football is far more complicated than that. Clubs do not necessarily improve year on year, even when they have investment, look at City and Liverpool.

It's gone from being 4 super rich teams, to six though. It's harder to break in now than four years back.

 

[Brennan]

With the exception of Button I reckon they were all on a decent wedge don't you?

Or do you think Crouch, Woodgate, Keane, Pav et al were all signed on the cheap?

Stop it Brenna ffs, you're trying to argue black is white here.

The difference isn't that large.

But regardless, how does this help the argument that getting in the CL would push us on ?

Spurs get into the CL and get £40m+ in the process, but despite having a revenue which is double ours, they can't continue to compete at that level after missing out the following season.

So what on earth makes you think Everton could ?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Improved, obviously.

But not enough to win the league or the CL.

Where as we can win the europa league without that money.

So if our choice is next year we are in the europa league and finish 6th and next year we're not and finish 4th, I'll take the former. Because the europa gives us a chance to win a trophy.

Each to their own, but I think that's a very short term view to hold tbh.

 

[Allezfan]

Each to their own, but I think that's a very short term view to hold tbh.

I'm less optimistic long term than you. I worry that within the next five or ten years we'll drop to midtable and have missed the chance to win anything with a very good team because we've prioritised high league positions over cup runs. And I suspect that'll happen even with a couple of seasons at 4th.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The difference isn't that large.

But regardless, how does this help the argument that getting in the CL would push us on ?

Spurs get into the CL and get £40m+ in the process, but despite having a revenue which is double ours, they can't continue to compete at that level after missing out the following season.

So what on earth makes you think Everton could ?

The difference is that ****ing large Brennan as they've reduced their squad size by 10 senior pros since their CL season, so their wage bill is bound to have come down. Their accounts will reflect that fact this year, bookmark away.

Also they are still competing at that level though & if it wasn't for Chelsea's CL fluke, they'd have been competing in the CL again this season.

I've already explained how competing in the CL would move us on & I can't see how you can formulate an argument that it could do anything other. It would be a massive positive if we qualified for the group stages of that competition.

 

[Essex Blue]

It's gone from being 4 super rich teams, to six though. It's harder to break in now than four years back.

That is true, but Moyes has got us in touching distance despite all that.

The jist of my argument is that competing in the Europa League is not worth losing points in the Premier League. I consider the Premier League to be more important, more prestigious and more lucrative.

 

[Brennan]

The difference is that ****ing large Brennan as they've reduced their squad size by 10 senior pros since their CL season, so their wage bill is bound to have come down. Their accounts will reflect that fact this year, bookmark away.

Also they are still competing at that level though & if it wasn't for Chelsea's CL fluke, they'd have been competing in the CL again this season.

I've already explained how competing in the CL would move us on & I can't see how you can formulate an argument that it could do anything other. It would be a massive positive if we qualified for the group stages of that competition.

I've already told you why it wouldn't.

Ignoring European competition Spurs' revenues are far higher than ours. That means they can pay higher wages and afford better players. Us getting into the Champions League and getting £20m will not do anything in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Allezfan]

That is true, but Moyes has got us in touching distance despite all that.

The jist of my argument is that competing in the Europa League is not worth losing points in the Premier League. I consider the Premier League to be more important, more prestigious and more lucrative.

And the jist of my argument is that I don't really care where we finish in the premier league.

You either win a trophy or you don't. 2nd or 17th is much the same.

I think there's just too big a gap in our views for us to agree on this, tbh. Lets just leave it there.

 

[Maestro Haze]

I still believe that if we bought Fer and kept Mirallas fit we would have Champions League football next year, shame it was all screwed up.

I do think if something like £17 million was invested in the squad this year, again Champions League would probably be ours.

But that's nowhere near enough for regular qualification.

And this argument that the Europa League hinders the PL is a fallacy, we could do with a much bigger squad but think back to when we were in the UEFA cup, we were fine. Maybe the Newcastle situation is an anomaly, I don't know.

To reiterate what someone said before as well, I'd much rather see Everton fighting it out on a Wednesday/Thursday evening than the likes of Liverpool or Spurs.

 

[Goat]

I'm less optimistic long term than you. I worry that within the next five or ten years we'll drop to midtable and have missed the chance to win anything with a very good team because we've prioritised high league positions over cup runs. And I suspect that'll happen even with a couple of seasons at 4th.

But we dont need a high league postion to win a Cup, you can win them at anytime.

Ask Portsmouth.

 

[Essex Blue]

And the jist of my argument is that I don't really care where we finish in the premier league.

You either win a trophy or you don't. 2nd or 17th is much the same.

I think there's just too big a gap in our views for us to agree on this, tbh. Lets just leave it there.

Fair enough.

But the difference between 2nd and 17th isn't the same. The top 4 qualify for a competition that brings a bumper financial reward, and allows a team to strengthen if the money is spent wisely.

Also, by your logic (you either win a trophy or you don't), then getting knocked out of the Quarter Final of the Europa League is 'much the same' as not competing in it at all.