F1 2021

[messymascot]

The curious case of Sebastian Vettel and how to rate him is really worth discussing..

For my money, it's clear based on what we've seen through his entire career that while he can be very, very good when everything is right, he is clearly not tier 1 material, 4 championships notwithstanding. Tier 1s are sublime talents that can drive anything and pretty much get the most out of it. They are not only extraordinarily fast, but supremely adaptable. Seb clearly lacks the latter quality, and is no better than average when the car's rear end isn't planted.

I think at best, he can be considered tier 2, but we haven't seen him at anything like his best for a few seasons now. Turning up and driving the wheels off of whatever machinery you've got is a quality that tier 1s all have. Seb doesn't have it, unfortunately.


Ricciardo is a damn good driver and fully capable of winning a championship given the right time & place.. but he doesn't deliver the level of performance that Hamilton/Verstappen and Alonso do. That is the thing with tier 2s and below - they will always be the 3rd or 4th most wanted drivers on the grid, and in a sport where usually only 2 or 3 drivers have a realistic shot at winning the championship most years, that means the #1 seats at the big teams are filled by the tier 1s, and everyone below that has to pray that their package somehow springs a surprise.

As the sport is today, you need to be the #1 driver at either Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari to win a championship.

Absolutely agree a flat track bully. Even then he sometimes struggled in the best car he nearly lost 2 Championships to Alonso in the third best car. He also lost the 2018 championship by a mile in the end when it could be suggested he had the best car.

 

[longers]

Absolutely agree a flat track bully. Even then he sometimes struggled in the best car he nearly lost 2 Championships to Alonso in the third best car. He also lost the 2018 championship by a mile in the end when it could be suggested he had the best car.

Merc was clearly superior car overall in 2018. Ferrari was arguably quicker at the start but Merc absolutely dominated second half of the season to the point where it left no doubt what the best car was.

 

[evilwebby]

Merc was clearly superior car overall in 2018. Ferrari was arguably quicker at the start but Merc absolutely dominated second half of the season to the point where it left no doubt what the best car was.

I don't think its anywhere near so clear cut. During the 2 years where Ferrari were competitive, in 2017 the Merc had the highest overall performance ceiling, but the trouble was that its operating sweet spot was comparatively narrow, in the early part of the season it was overweight, and it wasn't as kind on the tyres. They had qualifying engine modes which Ferrari didn't, so were quicker in qualifying, but the Ferrari's better aero together with the Merc's narrow window usually meant that they were just as fast on Sunday, sometimes overcoming the qualifying deficit and having the best race day car.

In 2018 Ferrari had pretty much eliminated the power deficit and could reasonably be argued to be the strongest car overall - very little between them imo. Unfortunately Vettel started making big mistakes that completely undermined their challenge.

 

[longers]

I don't think its anywhere near so clear cut. During the 2 years where Ferrari were competitive, in 2017 the Merc had the highest overall performance ceiling, but the trouble was that its operating sweet spot was comparatively narrow, in the early part of the season it was overweight, and it wasn't as kind on the tyres. They had qualifying engine modes which Ferrari didn't, so were quicker in qualifying, but the Ferrari's better aero together with the Merc's narrow window usually meant that they were just as fast on Sunday, sometimes overcoming the qualifying deficit and having the best race day car.

In 2018 Ferrari had pretty much eliminated the power deficit and could reasonably be argued to be the strongest car overall - very little between them imo. Unfortunately Vettel started making big mistakes that completely undermined their challenge.

For parts of the season there was little between them and Ferrari looked the better car early on but in the second half of the season they started to lose performance relative to Merc. Several upgrades they developed didn't work as they hoped whereas Mercs upgrades took them up a level.

Ferraris downturn in performance was also around the time they were forced to place a second sensor on their power unit after allegations from Merc and Red Bull claiming they were illegally boosting power unit performance.

How Mercedes turned the tables on Ferrari in F1 2018 tech battle

Mercedes has gone from fighting a rearguard action against a faster Ferrari to take charge of the 2018 Formula 1 season. These technical changes have been key to that swing

www.autosport.com

Ferrari power advantage dropped after FIA added second sensor!

Ferrari appears to have suddenly lost part of its power advantage, following the FIA's initiative of adding a second sensor to the SF71-H's power unit.

f1i.com

 

[longers]

Watching Drive to Survive season 3

Lawrence Stroll is one intense dude

 

[BNJ1878]

Watching Drive to Survive season 3

Lawrence Stroll is one intense dude

Yeah, you wouldn't want to drop the ball when he's watching.

 

[longers]

Ferrari episode is quite good, Christian Horner is an expert sh*t stirrer.

 

[Chewbacca]

I know times have changed but I’d love to see these drivers doing what they did in the Sixties and drive F1, F2, sports cars and saloon cars.

 

[Dom1878]

Got through all of DTS...

...things that we're apparent:

- Lawrence Stroll is a right ****, however Aston Martin will be a force thanks to it.
- Ferrari's handling of Vettel was indeed an absolute joke.
- Red Bull will never bring Gasly back into the fold thanks to the arrogance of Horner - and this arrogance came across. (The Gasly episode was also the best episode).
- McLaren are probably the most balanced team on the grid both driver wise and team wise.
- We really saw Gunter emphasise the reasons he brought Mazepin in. He not once mentioned Mazepin on his own - but every time he was mentioned he also mentioned his father. Gunter clearly isn't happy with it but knows what he has to do.

It's a real shame we didn't see a Williams episode. DTS has been fantastic to see behind the scenes, but i'd love to see 20 episodes with an episode for each individual driver.

 

[McBain]

Got through all of DTS...

...things that we're apparent:

- Lawrence Stroll is a right ****, however Aston Martin will be a force thanks to it.
- Ferrari's handling of Vettel was indeed an absolute joke.
- Red Bull will never bring Gasly back into the fold thanks to the arrogance of Horner - and this arrogance came across. (The Gasly episode was also the best episode).
- McLaren are probably the most balanced team on the grid both driver wise and team wise.
- We really saw Gunter emphasise the reasons he brought Mazepin in. He not once mentioned Mazepin on his own - but every time he was mentioned he also mentioned his father. Gunter clearly isn't happy with it but knows what he has to do.

It's a real shame we didn't see a Williams episode. DTS has been fantastic to see behind the scenes, but i'd love to see 20 episodes with an episode for each individual driver.

Great show, but I think sometimes they should show a little more detail about the season progression, driver standings etc. i like the story arcs but rarely know whats going on during the season.

 

[BNJ1878]

- Lawrence Stroll is a right ****, however Aston Martin will be a force thanks to it.

Yeah, must be on eggshells all the time when he's around. Doesn't seem to be a fella who cares about mitigating circumstances leading to under performance.

- Ferrari's handling of Vettel was indeed an absolute joke.

Terrible.

- Red Bull will never bring Gasly back into the fold thanks to the arrogance of Horner - and this arrogance came across. (The Gasly episode was also the best episode).

Yeah, Horner does come across as being a bit of a bell.

- McLaren are probably the most balanced team on the grid both driver wise and team wise.

Looking forward to seeing how Ricciardo v Norris pans out. Ricciardo (in my opinion) is a tad overrated. (Also, he's been the central figure of all three seasons. They are obsessed with him)

- We really saw Gunter emphasise the reasons he brought Mazepin in. He not once mentioned Mazepin on his own - but every time he was mentioned he also mentioned his father. Gunter clearly isn't happy with it but knows what he has to do.

That brief shot of Mazepin Snr? Check his hard drives. Deffo hangs out with Wayne Lineker.

It's a real shame we didn't see a Williams episode.

Really odd to omit it apart from a brief mention.

DTS has been fantastic to see behind the scenes, but i'd love to see 20 episodes with an episode for each individual driver.

That would be good. A season diary of each driver, in chronological order. They could easily get an hour or two each.

 

[evilwebby]

Hamilton is 2/5 odds-on to make it an 8th title
Verstappen 6/1
Bottas 14/1
Perez 40/1
Leclerc 50/1
Ricciardo 50/1
Vettel 50/1

Think that looks a little short for Hamilton, personally, I do think that Red Bull and Verstappen are going to give him a much harder time this year.

Should have taken those odds on Verstappen. He's in to 5/2 now. Hamilton drifted to 8/11 after a less than convincing pre-season.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Got through all of DTS...

...things that we're apparent:

- Lawrence Stroll is a right ****, however Aston Martin will be a force thanks to it.
- Ferrari's handling of Vettel was indeed an absolute joke.
- Red Bull will never bring Gasly back into the fold thanks to the arrogance of Horner - and this arrogance came across. (The Gasly episode was also the best episode).
- McLaren are probably the most balanced team on the grid both driver wise and team wise.
- We really saw Gunter emphasise the reasons he brought Mazepin in. He not once mentioned Mazepin on his own - but every time he was mentioned he also mentioned his father. Gunter clearly isn't happy with it but knows what he has to do.

It's a real shame we didn't see a Williams episode. DTS has been fantastic to see behind the scenes, but i'd love to see 20 episodes with an episode for each individual driver.

I only started watching this as I was lay in bed not feeling very well and the advert came up. Started from the beginning and just finished the episode with the Haas driver announcement. Very addictive.

I think 20 episodes would see an awful lot of re-treading the same ground though.

 

[Lapeno77]

Ferrari episode is quite good, Christian Horner is an expert sh*t stirrer.

Saw him described on twitter as F1s Karen.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Saw him described on twitter as F1s Karen.

It works for him though. If you don't have the best car then you have to gain every advantage wherever you can. He's very open about that and I don't think he dresses it up with any kind of righteous sporting integrity or morality.

Ruthless fella in a ruthless game.

I'm late to the game on this but watched every episode of DTS over a long weekend and it's got me looking forward to a F1 season for the first time in years. The Team Principals all seem ruthless in their own way but it impresses me how professional they are around each other when they all know they're looking for the advantages and would relish turning the screw on their rivals in every way possible. They all accept it's part of each others job to go in hard on the others.

Compare that with football and the bleating victim mentality of managers in the game.