Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Raino85]

As a reminder, club has sold Dobbin, Cannon and Simms who were Academy products for a combined fee of over 20 million. None of these were really good enough for the first team.

Forgot about Dobbin

We can add Antony Gordon to that list purely because he's a red

 

[Makis]

Can we get to Ajax standards of development though?

No, don't think so. Many clubs have tried but it takes a long time to implement and few clubs are willing to wait a decade or more for the results. And the way most British are run it's also impossible because one key component in Ajax's system is that every age group, including the first team, play the same system. British clubs change style when they change manager instead of picking a manager who can work with the selected style.

They also have a very competent setup, they really have invested in coaching. You don't get a job just because you used to play, you actually have to be good at coaching, even in the kids' teams.

 

[Raino85]

Can we get to Ajax standards of development though?

I hope not, they haven't produced anyone for years

 

[Makis]

Gravenbech is 22.

 

[Raino85]

Gravenbech is 22.

Last played for them 4 years years ago

 

[Toffeebraeden]

The Ajax model isn’t really that much different. For every Gravenberch/De Ligt, there are 3-4 players that end up moving to other Eiri/mid table Belgian/Bundesliga teams for a few hundred thousand pounds or a couple million that pours a bunch of money back into the club.
A championship or L1 team in the Uk is probably spending more on an aging out Everton U21 prospect with some ceiling than a lower table Belgian team is paying for the equivalent from Ajax.

 

[Makis]

Last played for them 4 years years ago

Very few players are household names right after they graduate from the Academy. But Brobbey, Taylor, Hato, Bass and probably others in their first team came through their system. Quickly looking at their transfers they got 40 million euros for Jurrien Timber in 2023. Last summer they sold Rensch for 5 million to Roma.

And Gravenbech moved to RS less than three years ago.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

Just like in first team football, the younger under 21s do need the odd 'experienced' player around them to help them through games etc.
If you have a talented 18 year old playing Centre back, does it help them more playing alongside a talented 16/17 year old, or a 22 year old who has played in the football league and by all accounts has a decent attitude?

Branthwaite ahs massively benefited from playing alongside Tarkowski in my opinion.

Some clubs even throw in 'on field coaches' like Spearing at the reds.

I think the PSV loan was the key in Branthwaites development as he played in big matches with high stakes involved and he was exposed to European competition and learnt by playing against better players

 

[Makis]

Doesn't Ajax's youth team play in the lower levels in the Dutch league? So their guys get exposed to playing against men without going out on loan.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

Doesn't Ajax's youth team play in the lower levels in the Dutch league? So their guys get exposed to playing against men without going out on loan.

They play in the Dutch second division so yes you're right

 

[RD2910]

Last played for them 4 years years ago

That's not true.

 

[W84 Dum Freeze]

The thing I can't get my head around is why do first team managers put two goalkeepers on a substitutes bench.

I can understand an argument that goes along the lines of we take three goalkeepers away with us when we travel, it keeps them engaged and keeps costs down, but is this at the detriment to development and experience of academy players in a first team setting or is it risk averse strategy to the young player or the goalkeeping position ?

 

[Raino85]

Very few players are household names right after they graduate from the Academy. But Brobbey, Taylor, Hato, Bass and probably others in their first team came through their system. Quickly looking at their transfers they got 40 million euros for Jurrien Timber in 2023. Last summer they sold Rensch for 5 million to Roma.

And Gravenbech moved to RS less than three years ago.

1) Gravenberch went to Bayern before the reds
2) They sold Timber for £37m the same year we sold Anthony Gordon for £40m
3) We also generated money from selling Samuels Smith, Cannon & Simms for roughly £18m, Rensch for £5m doesn't represent good value by Ajax when you look at that
4) Brobbey, Taylor & Bass have steadily declined over the years as they have had further exposure to first team football, we could also say the same with Armstrong, Tyrer & Dixon would all produce funds if sold, especially Armstrong

 

[oglop44]

The thing I can't get my head around is why do first team managers put two goalkeepers on a substitutes bench.

I can understand an argument that goes along the lines of we take three goalkeepers away with us when we travel, it keeps them engaged and keeps costs down, but is this at the detriment to development and experience of academy players in a first team setting or is it risk averse strategy to the young player or the goalkeeping position ?

We generally only do this for away games or games where the 21s played the night before/same day/following day. The logic being that 90 minutes at u21 level will be more beneficial than warming the bench for the first team.

I think the other reason is motivational. Being selected for the first team squad is a privilege and should be earned. Depending on the personality of the player and their current headspace, getting onto the bench could set a player back in their development.

We have had plenty of kids pop up on our bench over the last few years though, mostly because of injury crisis but they never get on because they aren't ready. It's the sad truth that "well they can't be worse than Keane" is regularly used to hide, they can in fact and often are worse than Keane/insert player name here.

 

[W84 Dum Freeze]

So it's a risk averse strategy to avoid damaging a players development, rather than a purely goalkeeping decision.

Do most premier league academies follow this policy ?