Everton Youth Teams Thread

[zzr45]

Everton youngster's breakthrough after eye-opening start on loan

Everton prospect Korede Adedoyin boosted by goal on loan at Hamilton Academical as he seeks first team opportunities

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Eye opening = scored in a Scottish reserves match.

Between him, Simms having to be ‘taught’ how to play adult football and Hornby essentially saying he’s been wasting time at Everton, I do wonder what these massive melts who are supposed to be developing them are up to?

 

[Eggs]

Everton youngster's breakthrough after eye-opening start on loan

Everton prospect Korede Adedoyin boosted by goal on loan at Hamilton Academical as he seeks first team opportunities

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Eye opening = scored in a Scottish reserves match.

Between him, Simms having to be ‘taught’ how to play adult football and Hornby essentially saying he’s been wasting time at Everton, I do wonder what these massive melts who are supposed to be developing them are up to?

....i’m not particularly defending any of the coaches, but Hornby was treading water at Everton because he wasn’t good enough to make the step-up. Essentially, he was wasting his time. Once it became apparent he wasn’t going to get an opportunity, he was best enveloping his game elsewhere. Very few come through, it’s the way it is.

Simms was outstanding playing in his ring-fenced age group. Like all youngsters, they have to adapt when they get into open-age football. Defenders and goalkeepers are more experienced, better quality and physically stronger. He won’t easily bully the opposition, goalscoring will be more difficult. Lots of youngsters can’t cope.

 

[zzr45]

....i’m not particularly defending any of the coaches, but Hornby was treading water at Everton because he wasn’t good enough to make the step-up. Essentially, he was wasting his time. Once it became apparent he wasn’t going to get an opportunity, he was best enveloping his game elsewhere. Very few come through, it’s the way it is.

Simms was outstanding playing in his ring-fenced age group. Like all youngsters, they have to adapt when they get into open-age football. Defenders and goalkeepers are more experienced, better quality and physically stronger. He won’t easily bully the opposition, goalscoring will be more difficult. Lots of youngsters can’t cope.

Yeah, it's starting to feel like a very inefficient system - if Hornby has been treading water he needed to be moved on rather than sitting around - again, I'd see that as a function of the academy to get these lads out of the picture when it becomes evident they won't make it. Easier said than done I know, but with a top flight Belgian team taking him, I struggle to believe we couldn't have offloaded him elsewhere sooner (I know his preferences play a part, if he's chosen to stay then fair enough, but I don't see how we could persuade academy players to move on.)

With Simms it feels another odd Unsworth statement - if that's the next step in his progression, he should be out there doing it, not treading water where he is. As you said in another thread, Kean, at the same age, had already featured and scored in the Juve first team, played in the CL and gone out on loan to another Serie A club. Simms has laced his boots up once in a game against players older than him. I know development isn't linear and proscribed, but there's just something with the system that feels like its too slow.

 

[Nymzee]

Yeah, it's starting to feel like a very inefficient system - if Hornby has been treading water he needed to be moved on rather than sitting around - again, I'd see that as a function of the academy to get these lads out of the picture when it becomes evident they won't make it. Easier said than done I know, but with a top flight Belgian team taking him, I struggle to believe we couldn't have offloaded him elsewhere sooner (I know his preferences play a part, if he's chosen to stay then fair enough, but I don't see how we could persuade academy players to move on.)

With Simms it feels another odd Unsworth statement - if that's the next step in his progression, he should be out there doing it, not treading water where he is. As you said in another thread, Kean, at the same age, had already featured and scored in the Juve first team, played in the CL and gone out on loan to another Serie A club. Simms has laced his boots up once in a game against players older than him. I know development isn't linear and proscribed, but there's just something with the system that feels like its too slow.

There’s no way around this.

 

[Eggs]

Yeah, it's starting to feel like a very inefficient system - if Hornby has been treading water he needed to be moved on rather than sitting around - again, I'd see that as a function of the academy to get these lads out of the picture when it becomes evident they won't make it. Easier said than done I know, but with a top flight Belgian team taking him, I struggle to believe we couldn't have offloaded him elsewhere sooner (I know his preferences play a part, if he's chosen to stay then fair enough, but I don't see how we could persuade academy players to move on.)

With Simms it feels another odd Unsworth statement - if that's the next step in his progression, he should be out there doing it, not treading water where he is. As you said in another thread, Kean, at the same age, had already featured and scored in the Juve first team, played in the CL and gone out on loan to another Serie A club. Simms has laced his boots up once in a game against players older than him. I know development isn't linear and proscribed, but there's just something with the system that feels like its too slow.

....but he was moved on.

 

[zzr45]

There’s no way around this.

How do you mean? That academies will always been inefficient? It's a difficult one, the problem currently is that clubs are playing the numbers game and trying to find the needle in the haystack and prevent others finding him. There's an argument for going the other way and creating smaller academies with the same level of resources and focusing on a select few - how the Barca model used to be for example.

 

[Nymzee]

How do you mean? That academies will always been inefficient? It's a difficult one, the problem currently is that clubs are playing the numbers game and trying to find the needle in the haystack and prevent others finding him. There's an argument for going the other way and creating smaller academies with the same level of resources and focusing on a select few - how the Barca model used to be for example.

Yeh, that’s the nature of an academy. We’re competing for kids in a very prolific catchment area with 3 massive clubs around us. People always reference the Class of 92 but to me that’s just one of those stars aligned moments. Sure I’d love a team of local players that are competing at the top of the league but it just doesn’t happen in this country. You have to have a squad to play a football match and we can’t expect a squad to be full of top players.

1-2 every year or so is still really successful. We produce plenty of professional football players - just not always for us.

 

[zzr45]

....but he was moved on.

Hornby? Yeah eventually, he's been 20 before we seem to have decided what to do with him. It just feels like we keep missing critical windows with players to send them out so they kick on.

 

[big nev lookalike]

Yeah, it's starting to feel like a very inefficient system - if Hornby has been treading water he needed to be moved on rather than sitting around - again, I'd see that as a function of the academy to get these lads out of the picture when it becomes evident they won't make it. Easier said than done I know, but with a top flight Belgian team taking him, I struggle to believe we couldn't have offloaded him elsewhere sooner (I know his preferences play a part, if he's chosen to stay then fair enough, but I don't see how we could persuade academy players to move on.)

With Simms it feels another odd Unsworth statement - if that's the next step in his progression, he should be out there doing it, not treading water where he is. As you said in another thread, Kean, at the same age, had already featured and scored in the Juve first team, played in the CL and gone out on loan to another Serie A club. Simms has laced his boots up once in a game against players older than him. I know development isn't linear and proscribed, but there's just something with the system that feels like its too slow.

I would say it’s one of two things,they are not good enough or the 1st team manager doesn’t want to play them.
None of the last 3 managers have really shown any interest in the youth teams,preferring to play the first team squad,even when those players haven’t performed well. As to them not being good enough,none of our released/sold young players are playing at a high standard elsewhere.
As you say there is something wrong with the system.

 

[Eggs]

Hornby? Yeah eventually, he's been 20 before we seem to have decided what to do with him. It just feels like we keep missing critical windows with players to send them out so they kick on.

...we send them out to move them on. Generally speaking, the very good ones don’t go on loan.

 

[zzr45]

...we send them out to move them on. Generally speaking, the very good ones don’t go on loan.

Which in itself is the issue, the young lads who are doing well for Chelsea right now - Abraham, Mount, Loftus Cheek etc - All spent time away and learned their craft with loan moves and kicked on from there. Despite being 4 months older than Mount for example, Hornby has played 4 career senior games compared to the 72 of Mount - only 8 of which have been at Chelsea.

Our philosophy just seems very odd, especially when you go back to that comment about Simms in which its almost acknowledged he needs to play open age football, but we're going against every talent development idea going and trying to replicate games in training. Just very odd.

 

[Nymzee]

Which in itself is the issue, the young lads who are doing well for Chelsea right now - Abraham, Mount, Loftus Cheek etc - All spent time away and learned their craft with loan moves and kicked on from there. Despite being 4 months older than Mount for example, Hornby has played 4 career senior games compared to the 72 of Mount - only 8 of which have been at Chelsea.

Our philosophy just seems very odd, especially when you go back to that comment about Simms in which its almost acknowledged he needs to play open age football, but we're going against every talent development idea going and trying to replicate games in training. Just very odd.

Loans don’t work for everyone. Sending Simms out at 18 could ruin him in the end; games aren’t guaranteed, development might not be right etc. Look what happened to Galloway.

 

[zzr45]

Loans don’t work for everyone. Sending Simms out at 18 could ruin him in the end; games aren’t guaranteed, development might not be right etc. Look what happened to Galloway.

True - quite whether WBA was the right option at the time to get him game time is questionable - then being sent to the nuthouse that was Sunderland . Needs to be the right environment.

 

[mightymoyes]

Yeah, it's starting to feel like a very inefficient system - if Hornby has been treading water he needed to be moved on rather than sitting around - again, I'd see that as a function of the academy to get these lads out of the picture when it becomes evident they won't make it. Easier said than done I know, but with a top flight Belgian team taking him, I struggle to believe we couldn't have offloaded him elsewhere sooner (I know his preferences play a part, if he's chosen to stay then fair enough, but I don't see how we could persuade academy players to move on.)

With Simms it feels another odd Unsworth statement - if that's the next step in his progression, he should be out there doing it, not treading water where he is. As you said in another thread, Kean, at the same age, had already featured and scored in the Juve first team, played in the CL and gone out on loan to another Serie A club. Simms has laced his boots up once in a game against players older than him. I know development isn't linear and proscribed, but there's just something with the system that feels like its too slow.

Simms has only just progressed to the u23 team full time cos that's where he's at in his progression. Comparing him to kean is just daft and comes from people who don't have a clue what they're talking about (such as yourself).

 

[zzr45]

Simms has only just progressed to the u23 team full time cos that's where he's at in his progression. Comparing him to kean is just daft and comes from people who don't have a clue what they're talking about (such as yourself).

Reading not one of your strong points?

a) it's based on Unsworth saying Simms needs to play 'proper football' to develop. He's then playing academy games which seems a direct contradiction.
b) Eggs made the 'comparison' between the two in another thread, hence why I said 'As you (meaning Eggs) said in another thread. The point being that other teams have progression towards becoming a first team player charted far better than us (again used examples of Abrahams, Mount etc. later in the thread.) where it seems, with most things, we are a bit haphazard.
c) 'I know development isn't linear and proscribed,' that means I know every journey is unique - just because Kean's done it doesn't mean everyone can.

So, you've come across as a bit of a tit there pal.