Everton home grown players (Moyes vs other managers)

[Seamus Colemole]

The main problem is that he doesn't give them any time when e.g. 4-0 up at cheltenham. Instead he brings on Hitz and naismith (yes i know they need match fitness blah blah) but that is irrelevant because we all know they would have come on regardless. but the experience would mean so much more to the younger players like barkley and vellios. I mean why we bought someone like mcfadden last year i will never know. He was only going to get 10 mins here and there and in his time here he literally did **** all so i don't see how it was benefiting us paying his wages instead of giving a youngster like barkley 10 mins here and there and who knows maybe pitched in with a couple of goals or assists which would have done his confidence the world of good - something he could relate back to when he gets a proper run in the team as 1st choice (hopefully).

Instead, if he does get this chance, what is he going to be thinking? that 90 mins he played against QPR and a penalty he gave away that he got lambasted for 2/3 years ago. Not saying players like him should be playing every game all the time, but they should be given valuable minutes whenever possible. In moyes' defence, there hasn't been too much chance of that this season with virtually every game of ours being a close match - but i think his handling of younsters overall is pretty poor

Well said mate.

I always here the "oh he's waiting for a good time for the youngsters to play" excuse and while its correct, the fact is we have often had good opportunities to play youngsters in recent seasons but didn't.

Games at the end of last season where we were winning comfortably. 1 or 2 young players on the bench out of 7 subs, put them on for the last 20 mins. Instead we put on James McFadden.

Swansea and Villa games, the club who give youth a chance would have had a young player on the bench and gave them a bit of game time at the end of those games. We didn't.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Exactly. 'Someone' = play young players for the sake of it.

No, you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that we have to have a player from our current crop of youngsters in the team no matter what.

What I'm saying is that if we had any kind of youth system we would always be having young players coming through the system that either:

a) improve the 1st team
b) improve the squad by featuring regularlyc
c) improve the bank balance by being sold for money despite being neither a or b

At the moment we don't have any of those things.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It not just us tho.

The English as a Nation just arent producing decent talent.

As seen in the awful ENGMNT that we trot out every few months.

For sure, the England team is testament to how poor we are as a nation at producing exceptional young players, which is why it's such a shame that we can't do it. If everyone else sucks it'd be a cost effective way to steal a march on them.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think the list shows how football has changed as much as anything, and how it is harder for young players to get a chance in a league filled with international players.
The debate can become a bit skewed. While I agree Moyes isn't the single best manager at bringing through young players, you have to say he is not abysmal at this.
We have sold close to 50 million pounds worth of talent from the academy in his time. We have broken the record on 3/4 occasions for youngest player (has any other manager achieved this?) We now have 3 academy graduates playing regularly in the first team, (I know Hibbert was played first by Smith, but really given a pro-longed run by Moyes). We have also sold players who are internationals like Rooney/Rodwell as well as the Vaughans of this world.
I think Moyes has a unique contradictory nature to young players. On the first hand, I think he is largely in favour of bringing young players in. I don't think he suffers primadona's well, and will drop players if there is a better younger option. I do think he is a manager who looks to the long term, and sees the academy as an important part of that.
At the same time, I also think he is, at heart a pragmatist. He wants to do what is best for the team for the next game at hand. This often means having a team full of guys in the late 20's and above.
I think he wants to play them, but will always find a reason not too, as often a reason exists.
Having said all of this, it is a hard job for him. When he rotated his squad at Leeds for a mickey-mouse cup game, he got slaughtered for doing so. It's a myth that fans like seeing local lads do well. The players I've read who get the most criticism have been Osman, Anichebe and Hibbert. The fact he tries to safeguard young players from this is somewhat commendable.
Going forwarf though, I would like to se more young players get more opportunities. I think Veillios, McAleny and Duffy could all do a job for us. I would like to know others thoughts on these players, and other young players we have coming through. I think Hope, Lundstrom and Barkley could and should feature in future as well.

 

[steele]

Can't be true

 

[Allezfan]

Can't be true

What bit isn't true, mate?

 

[Azzurri]

The bottom line on young players (and players in general) is that the club knows best.

Take, I dunno... John Lundstram. If he gets released without a first team game then the club know he's not good enough and never will be. Simple as. They've seen each 18 year old prospect play 50 games a year and train every day for 10 years in some cases.

You can't play 'in between' players at the age of 18 because they might be good when they're about 27, as this will lose you games.

 

[Allezfan]

The bottom line on young players (and players in general) is that the club knows best.

Take, I dunno... John Lundstram. If he gets released without a first team game then the club know he's not good enough and never will be. Simple as. They've seen each 18 year old prospect play 50 games a year and train every day for 10 years in some cases.

You can't play 'in between' players at the age of 18 because they might be good when they're about 27, as this will lose you games.

If the club is a good judge of a player. There's no guarentee that the decision that he's not good enough is the right one.

I tend to be pretty confident that it is in our case just because Moyes can pick a player, like. But it's not a certainty.

 

[toffeemax]

Would argue much greater onus on developing youth back before the PL started and monopolized the game with intrinsic scouting networks and plethora of technology to see games worldwide.

 

[Allezfan]

Would argue much greater onus on developing youth back before the PL started and monopolized the game with intrinsic scouting networks and plethora of technology to see games worldwide.

Yeah, what I took from my post more than anything is that we stopped producing a lot of home grown first teamers in the mid 70s. It's not a moyes thing so much as a modern everton thing.

 

[Azzurri]

If the club is a good judge of a player. There's no guarentee that the decision that he's not good enough is the right one.

I tend to be pretty confident that it is in our case just because Moyes can pick a player, like. But it's not a certainty.

Well they won't know, like, but they'll have a very good idea. Certainly a better idea than anyone on here.

 

[Elong]

This should be compared with other teams to make sense of the figures in my opinion.

Without having the stats and going off gut feeling, I really believe we give youth exactly the same opportunity as any other team around our level.

 

[Allezfan]

This should be compared with other teams to make sense of the figures in my opinion.

Without having the stats and going off gut feeling, I really believe we give youth exactly the same opportunity as any other team around our level.

First, Arsene Wenger says hello.

Second, surely we should give more. Because we're broke and this is the best way to catch a march on our rivals when we can't out spend them.

 

[Goat]

First, Arsene Wenger says hello.

Second, surely we should give more. Because we're broke and this is the best way to catch a march on our rivals when we can't out spend them.

Wenger buys the players, they dont come thru Arsenals youth system.

 

[Allezfan]

Wenger buys the players, they dont come thru Arsenals youth system.

Fabregas, Wilshere, Cole?