Euro2020 Knock Out Rounds

[BlueToff]

Anyway, Italy v Spain should be good.

 

[wandyr79]

After the Croatia loss, there was a riot in Birmingham and trashing of an IKEA store after beating Sweden.

Apart from all that, everyone else was well behaved and in fantastic spirit. I was told by fellow Evertonian friends in England, that they never seen the team bring a country together so well since 1996.

This actually reminds me of when I went to a league game in Croatia, got talking to a couple of lads and it was about 2 months after we played there in a qualifier. I sheepishly said I was English, half expecting some 'anger' directed towards me. He smiled and started to talk about how great the English fans were, mingling, having fun, singing, etc. with the Croatians.

There can be idiots trying to ruin the party, I remember there being some right pricks in Liege with Everton but on the whole I think people see the negative and associate it with everybody, it is the easy thing to do rather than debate about the potential problems that the minority causes.

I suppose the first paragraph is the problem, even fairly logical thinking people like me, who understands that it is the minority gets wound up in the negative press and history.

 

[davek]

Sorry Dave but we need to go back to your original, and continuous claim (and I'm talking about long before this thread) that England are supported in the main by violent, right wing thugs and the rest of us are either apologists or naive enablers.

I merely posted the tweet of the Muslim women as a counterpoint to your posts with images of fans dressed as crusaders and Boris bloody Johnson.
Not, as you arrogantly presume, because I've been seduced by the 'feelgood nonsense'. I'm well aware there aren't countless thousands of BAME England fans with an invite to Nigel Farage's post match celebration party.

My only real claim is that my reason for watching England is everything to do with habit and nothing at all to do with jingoism. And I'm sure it is for most.

Let me correct you here: I have not claimed that in the main they are followed by right wing thugs who enabled by the rest of you; I claim they are followed by racist thugs and political opportunists and that the rest of you who support England act as enablers to that.

The photo you linked of muslim women England supporters is much much less representative of England fans than the committed activists and knuckle draggers.

THAT's what I claimed, but you seem to have recently joined the ranks of taking what I actually said and repackaging it to me as a caricature.

A bit of self-examination is required here by you.

 

[Bluetintedspecs]

Just had a bit of a catch up in this thread.

According to Dave, the Queen's a nazi who murdered Princess Diana, muslim women aren't safe in English pubs, UEFA have rigged the tournament in England's favour, the England team is the Tory party on the pitch and are being politically weaponised by the government, who are also a bunch of murderers (the government that is, not the England team). Oh, and Souness hates Scotland and loves England.

Who could fail to be convinced by such rational debate?

 

[Lord Buckethead]

Just had a bit of a catch up in this thread.

According to Dave, the Queen's a nazi who murdered Princess Diana,

Don't be silly mate. We all know it was Prince Philip who sorted out the "Diana problem"

 

[McBain]

Get behind your team FFS. Its realistically the only chance of ever winning something in your lifetime.

 

[wandyr79]

Let me correct you here: I have not claimed that in the main they are followed by right wing thugs who enabled by the rest of you; I claim they are followed by racist thugs and political opportunists and that the rest of you who support England act as enablers to that.

The photo you linked of muslim women England supporters is much much less representative of England fans than the committed activists and knuckle draggers.

THAT's what I claimed, but you seem to have recently joined the ranks of taking what I actually said and repackaging it to me as a caricature.

A bit of self-examination is required here by you.

So, if all us non-racist thugs stopped supporting England they would stop being racist thugs and/or stop supporting England, as we are allowing this to happen by cheering a goal scored by an England player, sometimes with no-one else to hear it (in my case, all the Germans in the neighbourhood heard it last Tuesday )

Are you enabling the racist pricks that I have heard at Everton, just simply by suppoorting Everton. Hey, are you enabling the racist pricks that work for and/or also shop at Tesco (insert preferred shop of choice) by buying stuff from them.

I don't know if you are not not, it is hard to tell, but it is a very noble gesture by you to stand for equality by not supporting a multi-cultural team full of people who are also for equality and inclusiveness, and why because a few idiots support them.

 

[Billy Dean]

This actually reminds me of when I went to a league game in Croatia, got talking to a couple of lads and it was about 2 months after we played there in a qualifier. I sheepishly said I was English, half expecting some 'anger' directed towards me. He smiled and started to talk about how great the English fans were, mingling, having fun, singing, etc. with the Croatians.

There can be idiots trying to ruin the party, I remember there being some right pricks in Liege with Everton but on the whole I think people see the negative and associate it with everybody, it is the easy thing to do rather than debate about the potential problems that the minority causes.

I suppose the first paragraph is the problem, even fairly logical thinking people like me, who understands that it is the minority gets wound up in the negative press and history.

Also a huge number of German fans stayed behind inside wembley after last week's game for all the sweet caroline stuff, so they can't have been having too bad a time of it.

 

[davek]

So, if all us non-racist thugs stopped supporting England they would stop being racist thugs and/or stop supporting England, as we are allowing this to happen by cheering a goal scored by an England player, sometimes with no-one else to hear it (in my case, all the Germans in the neighbourhood heard it last Tuesday )

Are you enabling the racist pricks that I have heard at Everton, just simply by suppoorting Everton. Hey, are you enabling the racist pricks that work for and/or also shop at Tesco (insert preferred shop of choice) by buying stuff from them.

I don't know if you are not not, it is hard to tell, but it is a very noble gesture by you to stand for equality by not supporting a multi-cultural team full of people who are also for equality and inclusiveness, and why because a few idiots support them.

Here's the difference: you have no need to support England, but you do have to eat and you did get into football by supporting your own club team (and supporting them is more of a necessity than supporting a national team).

You identify and support who you want mate, I couldn't care less. This debate though is over something different: the claim that 3 muslim women watching England proves that group can be integrated into a national football support setting.

 

[wandyr79]

Here's the difference: you have no need to support England, but you do have to eat and you did get into football by supporting your own club team (and supporting them is more of a necessity than supporting a national team).

You identify and support who you want mate, I couldn't care less. This debate though is over something different: the claim that 3 muslim women watching England proves that group can be integrated into a national football support setting.

It is about much more than just one post, that was put up as a counter argument to your pictures of people dressed up and Boris Johnson, what were you trying to tell us with those pictures, exactly. Apparently it was not highlighting the exclusive nature of England football team, so what was it?

Two counter arguments, in relation to the bigger picture, is the England team racist and can the fans be inclusive? As a whole. I would say undeniably that the fans can be. I know enough England fans to be pretty certain of that. You will always get a minority of idiots following any football team so why use this as a reason to hate on the actual football team. I would see apathy as a much more pleasant way to view the national team.

Fair point, the Tesco argument was maybe not the best example, I suppose I could have made it more specific and you had the choice of shops, one was cheaper and closer, etc. etc. but you are right, it will probably always come down to the counter argument about need and want.

I am not sure on your question regarding getting into football. I got into football because both my parents loved football, they were both fans of the national side so I followed that and enjoyed it (apart from crying my eyes out during Italia 90 and the perpetual misery but supporting Everton and Barrow that was a given at club level as well.

What do you mean, identify. Are you claiming I identify with a fan dressed as a crusading knight or I identify with Boris Johnson because thwey support the same team as me, you can be a football fan and have differing opinions to other fans, on politics and fancy dress. I really don't get your point on enabling and identifying with other fans?

 

[Hickson9]

How is being entirely consistent with my own previously stated views being "a contrarian"?

contrarian

noun
a person who opposes or rejects popular opinion, especially in stock exchange dealing.
"it has become fashionable to be a stock-market contrarian"

adjective
opposing or rejecting popular opinion or current practice.
"the comment came more from a contrarian disposition than moral conviction"

 

[Shevin Keedy]

This is why the extremists hate them. They want us all divided, by colour/gender etc. But the England team are bringing people of all cultural backgrounds together at this moment in time, and they absolutely hate it.

Love is stronger than hate.

A true message of hope.

 

[MikeH72]

Here's the difference: you have no need to support England, but you do have to eat and you did get into football by supporting your own club team (and supporting them is more of a necessity than supporting a national team).

You identify and support who you want mate, I couldn't care less. This debate though is over something different: the claim that 3 muslim women watching England proves that group can be integrated into a national football support setting.

What you are essentially saying here is that 3 Muslim women shouldn’t support England and should be kept separate from England fans. That sounds awfully like segregation based on race/religion to me, I’m very much against that and thankfully most England fans are. I am pro-inclusion. Those women, as English people, are welcome to support our national team.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Let me correct you here: I have not claimed that in the main they are followed by right wing thugs who enabled by the rest of you; I claim they are followed by racist thugs and political opportunists and that the rest of you who support England act as enablers to that.

The photo you linked of muslim women England supporters is much much less representative of England fans than the committed activists and knuckle draggers.

THAT's what I claimed, but you seem to have recently joined the ranks of taking what I actually said and repackaging it to me as a caricature.

A bit of self-examination is required here by you.

Not a whole lot of difference between the bit in black and the bit in purple.

The bit in green would be marvelous advice for you but I doubt you're capable.

As for the bit in the middle. I never claimed that the photo of muslim women was majorly representative of England fans. You did claim in an earlier post that the images you posted of a pair of knuckle draggers and a political opportunist were posted 'without words or context'. Thus insinuating they were purely random. Thus, taking the piss.

I've been through the England team hating phase Dave. partly for similar ideological reasons to you. Partly because the football was predictably prehistoric.
I've since realised that political opportunists and knuckle draggers abound and have no nationality. And England aren't to shoddy at the old togger imho.
Demagogues in Spain, Italy and anywhere else will always bask in the reflected glory and take advantage of national sports teams/stars.
So we either give up on international sports all together and let the knuckle draggers keep the national team as the last bastion of white England. Or we try to make the pubs and stadiums a more inviting place for the muslim women and other minorities in our society

 

[MikeH72]

Not a whole lot of difference between the bit in black and the bit in purple.

The bit in green would be marvelous advice for you but I doubt you're capable.

As for the bit in the middle. I never claimed that the photo of muslim women was majorly representative of England fans. You did claim in an earlier post that the images you posted of a pair of knuckle draggers and a political opportunist were posted 'without words or context'. Thus insinuating they were purely random. Thus, taking the piss.

I've been through the England team hating phase Dave. partly for similar ideological reasons to you. Partly because the football was predictably prehistoric.
I've since realised that political opportunists and knuckle draggers abound and have no nationality. And England aren't to shoddy at the old togger imho.
Demagogues in Spain, Italy and anywhere else will always bask in the reflected glory and take advantage of national sports teams/stars.
So we either give up on international sports all together and let the knuckle draggers keep the national team as the last bastion of white England. Or we try to make the pubs and stadiums a more inviting place for the muslim women and other minorities in our society

This. Also to the bit in bold, those people that exist are absolute brain dead chimps. The England team hasn’t been exclusively white for god knows how long, many many decades. Indeed it is one of the most ethnically diverse teams in the entire world.