Current Affairs EU In or Out

[SNova]

I love Europe and I cannot wait to see the collapse of the EU. It'll happen in my lifetime. I'll give it another ten years at the most.

Britain will be the first to stand up. We will save Europe once again.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[peteblue]

I love Europe and I cannot wait to see the collapse of the EU. It'll happen in my lifetime. I'll give it another ten years at the most.

Britain will be the first to stand up. We will save Europe once again.

If you listen to the arrogant nonsense coming from the Eu about Brexit and now Trump you can quickly come to the conclusion that these people are from another planet. They understand nothing, hear nothing, see nothing, they merely repeat their doctrines, abuse this thing called popularism ( I always thought politicians wanted to do things for the majority) and attempt to denigrate those who stand up to them. I really want Farage to stick it to them..........

 

[Alex123]

The people have spoken. The sooner the EU is smashed, the better.

Could not care less what the class enemy in red robes and wigs have to say.

 

[SNova]

If you listen to the arrogant nonsense coming from the Eu about Brexit and now Trump you can quickly come to the conclusion that these people are from another planet. They understand nothing, hear nothing, see nothing, they merely repeat their doctrines, abuse this thing called popularism ( I always thought politicians wanted to do things for the majority) and attempt to denigrate those who stand up to them. I really want Farage to stick it to them..........

Their ideology blinds them. Their European global dreams must not be stopped by the little people. It doesn't matter how many of them must suffer so that the dream may continue.

 

[ilikecheese]

The funny thing about this is that now that people actually know the truths after the vote, if a second referendum were done it would soundly get beaten and so many more people would vote.

 

[peteblue]

The funny thing about this is that now that people actually know the truths after the vote, if a second referendum were done it would soundly get beaten and so many more people would vote.

No mate, if it were repeated, especially as we've had nothing but good news since, the vote would be overwhelmingly in favour of Leave. Nothing has so far happened to change that view. Even your own failure to get that witch Clinton appointed has played well into the Brexit camp.......

 

[Tubey]

The point is you negotiate on your own terms not terms that have tipped of your partner you are leaving god help you if you ever divorce you would lose your shirt?lol

Erm... the problem is they wouldn't be our terms, because we'd be setting our position as leaving no matter what, so the EU have ever reason to screw us over.

The irony here is that you would be losing everything in a divorce by saying you'd accept whatever your wife said she wants in advance!

 

[SNova]

The funny thing about this is that now that people actually know the truths after the vote, if a second referendum were done it would soundly get beaten and so many more people would vote.

Just make em vote again, just like the Irish.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The deal will be whatever the deal is. We are leaving the EU, because that was the vote, the terms have yet to be defined. If however the EU does not wish to deal with us for whatever reason, then two years after serving article 50 we are out. Whatever happens we will be better off......we have moved on, the politicians understand this and have started to see the opportunities, the Trump result just emphasises the opportunity..........

You have moved on Pete. Don't presume to speak for a great many people who haven't. I know it seems like their views are unimportant and all. There's a lot of talk at the moment about the elite being out of touch, but that fails to account for the 16 million of so people who voted to stay in the EU, or the however many million that voted to keep Trump out of the white house. Those people aren't 'an elite', and I'm afraid your views on being better off are absurd. Were Marconi better off whatever happened with the telecoms licenses?

 

[1966efc]

The funny thing about this is that now that people actually know the truths after the vote, if a second referendum were done it would soundly get beaten and so many more people would vote.

Tosh.

 

[bflefc]

It's this simple.

The first referendum question: 'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?'

The answer comes back No.

All fine. Go through parliament, get approval for Article 50 to start the process to leave (which will pass through as parliament will accept the democratic principle of the referendum).

At that point, we're negotiating the terms of leaving. We have NOT been asked what terms we leave on - neither parliament or a referendum has had a chance to judge those terms.

Therefore, the second referendum makes perfect sense - not to ask again if we should leave, but the question should be.

"Do you support the process of leaving the European Union via the Brexit Act 2018 (or whatever it'll be called)?"

At that point, we should actually have referendum after referendum until the answer is Yes, because Article 50 can be cancelled at any point in those two years, so if we keep getting the answer No at that point, there's no reason not to re-run (it'd be ludicrous if it was an unimportant issue, but this is the biggest issue of a generation - it makes sense to do it thoroughly).

But during the process, if we keep getting No and it's looking likely the public have changed their mind for economic reasons or whatever, then we should ask the original question again.

People who have applauded the referendum have applauded democracy in action - therefore, why are you all so scared of democracy continuing to act? You trusted and applauded the public for its' decision in the first instance; why be so wary of asking them again about the terms? Or, if you really are afraid of another referendum, why not advocate parliament having a free vote on it according to their conscience, given they are elected to govern?

I've read some tripe in my life, but that is perhaps the most ridiculous notion ever.

Perhaps we do the same after every election, eh? Vote the party in, then have an election every time Parliament proposes to pass any new law: put that to the people to ensure we're all happy with it.

How long does it take you to travel to work on your unicorn every day?

 

[1966efc]

As I am sure you are aware we do not have a codified constitution to which I can point directly to give you an answer.

However I can point you to the view of the High Court and examples of referendum legislation that are legally binding (the alternative vote referendum for example which explicitly stated so).

On November 3rd the High Court said

“a referendum on any topic can only be advisory for the lawmakers in Parliament”.

Finally I will refer you to the briefing paper for the European Referendum Bill 2015-16 which clearly states the referendum is pre-legislative or consultative.

If a Prime Minister, his cabinet and the opposition make it very clear, repeatedly, that the result will be binding then politically there is no going back.

If you can find a single quote from any minister to the contrary, the remain side might have a prayer of achieving something in parliament.

If, because of court decisions, M P's were emboldened enough to challenge the government to the point of defeat, May might be tempted to go to the country. It would not end well for the twitching corpse of the Remain side.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The funny thing about this is that now that people actually know the truths after the vote, if a second referendum were done it would soundly get beaten and so many more people would vote.

People don't want the truth. We've seen during the Trump thing that his lies were highlighted numerous times and it didn't make a blind bit of difference. Likewise, there has been warning after warning post-Brexit and they're similarly brushed off with that helpful catch all that we don't need experts any more. When your reasoning style is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and going tra-la-la then it's always going to be hard.

The funny thing is, when (if) it really does go wrong, those same folks won't blame the choices they made, but rather the people who warned them it'd be rubbish. We've seen that already with SNova suggesting that the rise in the far-right in Europe is the fault of Merkel for being too kind. So is there likely to be some kind of damascene moment where the people of Thanet et al become open and tolerant? I doubt it somehow.

That you've got people on an Everton forum preaching about 'the people having spoken', despite not only most people in Liverpool voting otherwise, but also clearly most of their fellow GOT members, it says mountains for me.

 

[Joey66]

Erm... the problem is they wouldn't be our terms, because we'd be setting our position as leaving no matter what, so the EU have ever reason to screw us over.

The irony here is that you would be losing everything in a divorce by saying you'd accept whatever your wife said she wants in advance!

You tell your legal advisor not your wife she would just say ---- off so letting the EU no first would be plain stupidity!

 

[Joey66]

The funny thing about this is that now that people actually know the truths after the vote, if a second referendum were done it would soundly get beaten and so many more people would vote.

What truth they would peddle even more lies they sent a 9 million pound documents to every household, and still got beat the cost of a 2nd referendum is a disgusting sugesttiion cost wise is a 3 month campaign not enough for you????