Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Socrates]

@peteblue you might recall immediately after the referendum vote I called for a General Election and a unity government to see us through what I considered to be an economic crisis but actually now is looking increasingly like a constitutional crisis also.

I would call for a suspension of traditional party politics, a cabinet made of both major parties and representatives of Scotland Ireland, Wales and regional representatives also.

Under appropriate legislation the cabinet would be held to account by all other MPs and of course, the House of Lords.

In effect it would operate similar to a war government.

Naah. This would be democratic. That would never happen.

 

[SNova]

You lost, get over it.

 

[The Esk]

You lost, get over it.

At the moment we are all losing, and without leadership and direction the losses are going to grow for some time to come.

 

[peteblue]

That's the way it's always been though. We don't vote on a lot of things in domestic politics. We vote for our MPs, who then vote on our behalf in parliament. In the same way, we vote for MEPs, who do likewise in the European parliament. I'm not really sure where the confusion lies for people.

The issue is that the royal prerogative was used by the PM's for each change to the EU treaties and MP's were not given a vote. Challenges made to the courts were thrown out. However the first time that a PM wanted to remove EU powers the court rejected the royal prerogative. That's why the Government and people are a tad upset......

 

[peteblue]

At the moment we are all losing, and without leadership and direction the losses are going to grow for some time to come.

Indeed......

 

[SNova]

At the moment we are all losing, and without leadership and direction the losses are going to grow for some time to come.

I agree with that. Though the direction I'd advocate would be the opposite.

 

[The Esk]

I agree with that. Though the direction I'd advocate would be the opposite.

Be interested to hear what you would advocate?

 

[SNova]

Be interested to hear what you would advocate?

I'd start negotiating a free trade deal with the EU. With certain red lines. If they cannot compromise then we trade without a deal. I wouldn't let the 'remoaners' anywhere near it. They'll just attempt to keep us within the EU.

 

[The Esk]

I'd start negotiating a free trade deal with the EU. With certain red lines. If they cannot compromise then we trade without a deal. I wouldn't let the 'remoaners' anywhere near it. They'll just attempt to keep us within the EU.

Whilst I understand why you would say that given your desire to leave the EU you do realise the government doesn't have the authority to do that, nor would the EU respond to such an approach.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I'd start negotiating a free trade deal with the EU. With certain red lines. If they cannot compromise then we trade without a deal. I wouldn't let the 'remoaners' anywhere near it. They'll just attempt to keep us within the EU.

I take it you mean no free movement of people?

 

[abelard]

I'd start negotiating a free trade deal with the EU. With certain red lines. If they cannot compromise then we trade without a deal. I wouldn't let the 'remoaners' anywhere near it. They'll just attempt to keep us within the EU.

so your bargaining position is: "now that we've unilaterally eliminated all of our leverage, we'd like you to concede on all of our demands while offering you nothing in return?"

 

[Joey66]

I think it underlines the ignorance of the majority of the British public too. There was a survey done at the start of the year about the level of knowledge of EU politics by members of the public in all European nations, and we came near the bottom. That vacuum was filled in large part by lies and utter tosh during the referendum.

On both sides Bruce!

 

[Joey66]

so your bargaining position is: "now that we've unilaterally eliminated all of our leverage, we'd like you to concede on all of our demands while offering you nothing in return?"

Its the same as Parliament argue I got the toss for now till the end of March what parliaments

Whilst I understand why you would say that given your desire to leave the EU you do realise the government doesn't have the authority to do that, nor would the EU respond to such an approach.

Exactly so parliament debates to the end of march what should be in the negotiations?
May takes that to the EU they say NO your position is then weaker?
The people voted three judges have given the right for Parliment to vote really May could do a simple Bill on article 50 get it passed as it was in the manefesto ala referendum have cross Party talks which are already set up yes we agree we need access to the single market will the EU allow it?
All that delay when it depends on how the EU will react in the the next 2 1/2 years of us leaving if they play hardball on even a soft Brexit what's the point of any vote it's inmaterial if the EU give us absolutely nothing which I doubt very much, the likes of Nick Clegg is only worrying about his EU pension

 

[Toffeelover]

It's a crisis brought about by poor government - both before the referendum and particularly since.

It could have been left out of the court and for Parliament to determine, the mess was created by going to the court. Poor governance as you claim was only in respect of the referendum because an out vote did not suit you.

I wonder if it had a reverse position would you still be saying the same, I doubt it. In addition you repeatedly not commented on a what a future EU would look like and how we would fit in. It is rubbish to say we have a veto, a change could be wrought by a majority of States. Or new legislation introduced in the EU parliament.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It could have been left out of the court and for Parliament to determine, the mess was created by going to the court. Poor governance as you claim was only in respect of the referendum because an out vote did not suit you.

I wonder if it had a reverse position would you still be saying the same, I doubt it. In addition you repeatedly not commented on a what a future EU would look like and how we would fit in. It is rubbish to say we have a veto, a change could be wrought by a majority of States. Or new legislation introduced in the EU parliament.

Without wishing to speak on behalf of Esk, as the article I shared last night was saying, many of the solutions to grievances held by people are already within the power of our government. Were they governing better then they could do an awful lot without having to go through the upheaval of leaving the EU. My concern is that people are hoping Brexit will be the panacea when in reality the solution is doing some unglamorous things closer to home. The worst case scenario is that it makes the lot of those who voted for change significantly worse. The elites won't be effected either way as they never really are.