Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bruce Wayne said:
You know it's not that straight forward. The world is infinitely more connected than before we joined the EU, and that inter-connectedness will need to be rebuilt. It's a big undertaking, especially as the apparent mandate would appear to offer short shrift should the government simply decide to try and keep things as they were (in terms of laws and tariffs) but without EU membership. As it is, if it goes wrong, I can't imagine we could re-apply for EU membership without considerable loss to our global reputation.
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But all of that is just detail and actions that need to be addressed. It has elements of difficulty and some bits will be very complicated. There will also be some elements that are complex in its truest sense. But by addressing these we will learn, we will grow and we will develop much faster than if we just remained the same. This is a wonderful opportunity for our country.........
 
Bruce Wayne said:
As an experienced manager Pete, I'm sure you're aware that experiments are great so long as you can walk away from them should they go wrong. Should Brexit turn out to be a turkey, it isn't at all easy to go back on it. I'm sure when you consult businesses you don't advocate experiments that could sink the company.
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Bruce please retract your post on you wanting the country to crash if Brexit goes through?
It's not an experiment it the vote of the people we voted to go in it now we have voted to leave let's get on with it in a positive way no way We will we go bust!
We can debate , but let's be positive about it we had the doom and gloom for three months from the Remain side etc ,, IMO have been proved wrong!
 
peteblue said:
But all of that is just detail and actions that need to be addressed. It has elements of difficulty and some bits will be very complicated. There will also be some elements that are complex in its truest sense. But by addressing these we will learn, we will grow and we will develop much faster than if we just remained the same. This is a wonderful opportunity for our country.........
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Lets be honest, the more accurate thing to write in each of the above would be 'you hope'.
 
Anders_Limpar said:
As a matter of interest what would you say the fundamental weaknesses? I.e. What would they have to do to want to be a part of it?
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The EU does not work and when they fix it, it will be a USE. Until it achieves single country status it will fail. I do not wish to be part of the USE. If I wished the Uk to be part of a larger country then I would vote to join the USA.......
 
Bruce Wayne said:
What's more, I do wonder quite how many of those who talk of regaining sovereignty could name the laws that we would be regaining control over. After all, as the Economist piece I linked to earlier highlighted, the British press are so prolific in printing blatant lies about the 'loss of sovereignty' to the EU that the European Commission created a website to rebuff the rubbish printed in our media.
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I've yet to speak to a single leave voter who's main concern was sovereignty, who can tell me a law, that has directly affected them or their life. (Apart from trading regulations which are essential to any trade deal with anyone).
 
peteblue said:
The EU does not work and when they fix it, it will be a USE. Until it achieves single country status it will fail. I do not wish to be part of the USE. If I wished the Uk to be part of a larger country then I would vote to join the USA.......
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Was hoping for a little more detail than 'it does not work.' What, in your opinion doesn't work?

And why on earth would you want to join the USA?
 
Joey66 said:
Bruce please retract your post on you wanting the country to crash if Brexit goes through?
It's not an experiment it the vote of the people we voted to go in it now we have voted to leave let's get on with it in a positive way no way U will we go bust!
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Of course it's an experiment in that we have no idea at all how it's going to pan out. You no doubt disagree, but I think that Brexit has helped Trump in his campaign, and it will no doubt help Le Pen in the upcoming French elections. For that reason I do hope it fails miserably, as a world with a mentality represented by people like that and Nigel Farage is a considerably worse place.

We have to put things in context. For most of our membership of the EU, we have been one of the foremost champions for free trade, and indeed were one of the core cheerleaders for TTIP. The thing is, whilst we can debate the intentions of leave voters, the one thing that binds populists around the world is a desire to put up the barriers to the outside world, whether socially via immigration controls or economically via protectionism.

So this previous notion of Britain as a cheerleader for globalisation has been torn up and tossed away as far as I can see, and I certainly don't expect them to take what we had with the single market and replace it with a version on steroids. After all, 'trading with the world' offers the risk of jobs being lost just as much as through migration, and there appears a distinct mandate to stop that.

And that's a terrible thing imo, especially as the government already has at its disposal things that can help people who suffer from change in the labour market. The thing is, they don't invest in adult education whatsoever. Their dedicated fund to help those disrupted by globalisation is an insult to the very concept.

Likewise, their approach to dealing with movement in the labour market is equally dire. There is no flexibility to what is a largely incredibly centralised system of governance. I've said before, but if (for example) Nissan decided to move to Liverpool and therefore all of it's workers and supply chain needed to move cities, Liverpool would be no more equipped to deal with that internal migration than if 50,000 new people moved to Liverpool from Poland. Migration, whether internally or internationally, is widely believed to be a key element in a fruitful population, and certainly in tackling poverty, yet we have a society that does little to support that, and leaving the EU will do nothing at all to change things.
 
Anders_Limpar said:
Was hoping for a little more detail than 'it does not work.' What, in your opinion doesn't work?

And why on earth would you want to join the USA?
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There is no fiscal union yet have a supposed monetary union, therefore if Greece goes belly up they get punished. If Scotland made some huge financial mistake they would be bailed out by the rest of the UK. The UK model works, the EU model doesn't because it is still working out how to convince or train everyone how to become European. We joined a trading group. If it was still just a trading group there would be no issue. But the EU by introducing the Euro etc basically started on the path to a USE, of which I want no part.

I do not wish to join the USA, but if for some reason I had to join a Superstate, then I would join one that speaks the same language and has similar values......
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Of course it's an experiment in that we have no idea at all how it's going to pan out. You no doubt disagree, but I think that Brexit has helped Trump in his campaign, and it will no doubt help Le Pen in the upcoming French elections. For that reason I do hope it fails miserably, as a world with a mentality represented by people like that and Nigel Farage is a considerably worse place.

We have to put things in context. For most of our membership of the EU, we have been one of the foremost champions for free trade, and indeed were one of the core cheerleaders for TTIP. The thing is, whilst we can debate the intentions of leave voters, the one thing that binds populists around the world is a desire to put up the barriers to the outside world, whether socially via immigration controls or economically via protectionism.

So this previous notion of Britain as a cheerleader for globalisation has been torn up and tossed away as far as I can see, and I certainly don't expect them to take what we had with the single market and replace it with a version on steroids. After all, 'trading with the world' offers the risk of jobs being lost just as much as through migration, and there appears a distinct mandate to stop that.

And that's a terrible thing imo, especially as the government already has at its disposal things that can help people who suffer from change in the labour market. The thing is, they don't invest in adult education whatsoever. Their dedicated fund to help those disrupted by globalisation is an insult to the very concept.

Likewise, their approach to dealing with movement in the labour market is equally dire. There is no flexibility to what is a largely incredibly centralised system of governance. I've said before, but if (for example) Nissan decided to move to Liverpool and therefore all of it's workers and supply chain needed to move cities, Liverpool would be no more equipped to deal with that internal migration than if 50,000 new people moved to Liverpool from Poland. Migration, whether internally or internationally, is widely believed to be a key element in a fruitful population, and certainly in tackling poverty, yet we have a society that does little to support that, and leaving the EU will do nothing at all to change things.
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Moving 50,000 people to Liverpool with Nissan would be a planned move. At the moment 50,000 Poles could just turn up...let's at least do similar comparisons......
 
peteblue said:
There is no fiscal union yet have a supposed monetary union, therefore if Greece goes belly up they get punished. If Scotland made some huge financial mistake they would be bailed out by the rest of the UK. The UK model works, the EU model doesn't because it is still working out how to convince or train everyone how to become European. We joined a trading group. If it was still just a trading group there would be no issue. But the EU by introducing the Euro etc basically started on the path to a USE, of which I want no part.

I do not wish to join the USA, but if for some reason I had to join a Superstate, then I would join one that speaks the same language and has similar values......
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Fair enough. Appreciate the response.

Interesting that if it was just trade you'd be ok with it. What about if it was trade and freedom of movement but none of the rest?

Personally think our values are a lot closer to most of Europe than America... or maybe that's more of a hope...
 
peteblue said:
Moving 50,000 people to Liverpool with Nissan would be a planned move. At the moment 50,000 Poles could just turn up...let's at least do similar comparisons......
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It's irrelevant as the local council in Liverpool is as equipped to deal with the influx in both scenarios. They can't easily build new homes to house them, they don't get additional funding to reflect their new population from central government as that is based upon census data so is nearly always out of date, and so they are wholly unprepared to adapt.

Equally, the people of Sunderland would be equally ill-prepared to help people in Sunderland should the factory move elsewhere, regardless of whether that's Liverpool or Paris. Precious little is invested in adult education, and I heard that from the head of the education select committee just this week. The globalisation support fund has a couple if million in it, so is hardly up to much either.

It's a sham really, yet rather than the government actually focus on better governance, they are taking an enormous gamble purely because they played politics and lost.
 
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