Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I don't think anyone wants a hard Brexit on here either, but as free movement of people is one of the founding principles of the EU, it's hard to see how a softer split can be achieved given the apparent hard stance of May et al on that prnciple.

I don't think the EU can possibly allow Britain to have free market access and not free movement. It just won't happen.

Why not ?..how will doing that sort of deal with the UK have a detrimental effect upon the EU ?.......

 

[joey_macmo]

Do you not think that comparing the TTIP deal with America and the CETA agreement with Canada as perhaps disingenuous.......especially as you know almost nothing about either.......

Considering people with far more knowledge of both than myself (and it appears yourself as well) have been saying they are closely related for at least about 18 months now then no I wouldn't call it disengenious in the slightest.

 

[peteblue]

Considering people with far more knowledge of both than myself (and it appears yourself as well) have been saying they are closely related for at least about 18 months now then no I wouldn't call it disengenious in the slightest.

If they were the same then why didn't the USA and Canada from NAFTA just do a deal with the EU.....

 

[joey_macmo]

Six parliaments in Belgium and one with a small population holds up a 7 year deal up , and you call that accountability?
I call it a great reason to justify leaving a over topped brerocrats of the EU, and believe it or not that was one of the big reasons OUT won!

Just another example of you not caring what the content is just that you use it for your anti EU agenda.

You were (and I presume you still are) vehemently against TTIP

Several times you used it as a reason for leaving the EU now a very similar deal is being held up and your using that as a reason to leave.

 

[peteblue]

Considering people with far more knowledge of both than myself (and it appears yourself as well) have been saying they are closely related for at least about 18 months now then no I wouldn't call it disengenious in the slightest.

Then just to educate.....

Despite the general similarity of the two agreements there is a major difference in the domain of standards. While the exact rules are rather complex and detailed and also differ for different types of NTMs, the main difference is that in CETA the standards of the importer country will prevail, while TTIP strives for mutual recognition of standards.

Irrespective of the comprehensive tariff reduction and elimination, generally CETA does not eliminate the differences in standards. Imports still need to comply with the rules and regulations that the product in question needs to satisfy on the respective import market (technical, sanitary or phytosanitary rules for the security and the protection of the consumer, the user or the environment, including notably food safety and labelling requirements).

There are several procedural improvements (e.g. regarding ‘Technical Barriers to Trade’, TBTs) making it easier for an EU exporter to obtain the required certification for the Canadian market (and vice versa) that obviously lower trade costs but Canadians standards have to be obeyed (and vice versa). Hence, many of the sensitive issues debated in TTIP remain untouched by CETA.

The situation regarding standards is entirely different in TTIP as the US insists on ‘regulatory cooperation’ which may mean harmonisation of standards or mutual recognition of standards. Mutual recognition of standards means that a product admitted to the US market may also be sold anywhere in the EU (and vice versa) or a body needs to decide on the applied standards. While harmonisation or mutual recognition of standards will entail the largest trade effects, it is therefore here where most risks, be it environmental or health-related) for consumers may arise.

 

[peteblue]

Just another example of you not caring what the content is just that you use it for your anti EU agenda.

You were (and I presume you still are) vehemently against TTIP

Several times you used it as a reason for leaving the EU now a very similar deal is being held up and your using that as a reason to leave.

I don't think I did.......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why not ?..how will doing that sort of deal with the UK have a detrimental effect upon the EU ?.......

I would imagine a number of countries (the Visegrad for instance) would demand similar arrangements, thus undermining a central principle of the EU.

 

[peteblue]

I would imagine a number of countries (the Visegrad for instance) would demand similar arrangements, thus undermining a central principle of the EU.

I knew you would say that, so my question is "if other EU countries also do not believe it to be a good idea then why is it set in stone" ?.....

 

[joey_macmo]

Then just to educate.....

Despite the general similarity of the two agreements there is a major difference in the domain of standards. While the exact rules are rather complex and detailed and also differ for different types of NTMs, the main difference is that in CETA the standards of the importer country will prevail, while TTIP strives for mutual recognition of standards.

Irrespective of the comprehensive tariff reduction and elimination, generally CETA does not eliminate the differences in standards. Imports still need to comply with the rules and regulations that the product in question needs to satisfy on the respective import market (technical, sanitary or phytosanitary rules for the security and the protection of the consumer, the user or the environment, including notably food safety and labelling requirements).

There are several procedural improvements (e.g. regarding ‘Technical Barriers to Trade’, TBTs) making it easier for an EU exporter to obtain the required certification for the Canadian market (and vice versa) that obviously lower trade costs but Canadians standards have to be obeyed (and vice versa). Hence, many of the sensitive issues debated in TTIP remain untouched by CETA.

The situation regarding standards is entirely different in TTIP as the US insists on ‘regulatory cooperation’ which may mean harmonisation of standards or mutual recognition of standards. Mutual recognition of standards means that a product admitted to the US market may also be sold anywhere in the EU (and vice versa) or a body needs to decide on the applied standards. While harmonisation or mutual recognition of standards will entail the largest trade effects, it is therefore here where most risks, be it environmental or health-related) for consumers may arise.

And as if by magic you decided not to post the parts of the very same article titled "similarities"

Thanks for the link to the article though. I will also post a selective quote from it

in some respects CETA really looks like a blueprint for TTIP

What you've done there is quite literally the definition of disingenuous Pete

Just to educate........

 

[Toffeelover]

I would imagine a number of countries (the Visegrad for instance) would demand similar arrangements, thus undermining a central principle of the EU.

Are you saying this Bruce because those four countries are against accepting any refugees, thus thwarting the free movement of prople

 

[neil999]

Are you saying this Bruce because those four countries are against accepting any refugees, thus thwarting the free movement of prople

dont think refugees come under free movement of people rules?

 

[peteblue]

And as if by magic you decided not to post the parts of the very same article titled "similarities"

Thanks for the link to the article though. I will also post a selective quote from it



What you've done there is quite literally the definition of disingenuous Pete

Just to educate........

I'm glad you've been educated......

 

[joey_macmo]

I don't think I did.......

Wasn't talking to you but a quick search brings up a couple of absolute corkers considering your recent posts

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I knew you would say that, so my question is "if other EU countries also do not believe it to be a good idea then why is it set in stone" ?.....

Because racism underpins a lot of that. Those same countries, of course, want to preserve the right of their people to live and work throughout Europe, they just don't want Muslims coming to their country.

I've said consistently throughout all of this, and certainly before the vote, that Brexit runs a big risk of bolstering the cause of far-right groups throughout Europe, and that is a cause that must be resisted.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are you saying this Bruce because those four countries are against accepting any refugees, thus thwarting the free movement of prople

I'm saying there is a large degree of racism involved. Austria, for instance, have border checks when coming into the country from Slovenia, but not when going the other way. I dare say the stringency of those checks is based in large part on the colour of ones skin.

Both countries are part of Schengen.