Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Ruairi77]

To be honest mate, if anybody in Northern Ireland sees produce checks away from the border as a reason to restart the hostilities in their country, then they deserve whatever comes their way, and people like me are wasting my time trying to come up with solutions to the issue.

there are plenty of people like that which is why the GFA was such a huge deal. It brought an end to that nonsense. And the main reason it worked was because both countries were in the same common market.
You voted to pull one of the legs out from under the table but you're blaming everyone else if all the crap comes off the table.
Brexit was a lazy slap in the face to those peace talks.
If hostilities restart it's because agreed to deals are being ignored.

 

[Jebus_lives]

To be honest mate, if anybody in Northern Ireland sees produce checks away from the border as a reason to restart the hostilities in their country, then they deserve whatever comes their way, and people like me are wasting my time trying to come up with solutions to the issue.

"If anybody thought Brexit was going to improve their circumstances and cause no disruption to NI, despite all the warnings, they deserve whatever comes their way".

 

[Xizor]

But thats the whole point. We shouldnt be looking for solutions years after a vote. It should have been addressed at the time, evaluated, and then lobbed into the cocktail of ace reasons to Leave.

This is the insane root at the heart of it all - I'm pretty sure no other referendum ever has been proposed by a government hoping for a 'no' vote. In most (all?) other cases, the government wants to make a change but feels it needs the approval of the population directly rather than a parliamentary nod. The government can write the exact proposed law etc and ask for a vote on that, with an informed public knowing exactly what stakes they're voting on.

In one of the greatest failures of statecraft in British history, Cameron announced a referendum on something he wanted to fail and therefore adopted the 'no change' plan, giving a cadre of opportunistic fantasists a free hand in promising absolutely everything that you could ever want from Leaving. It was literally all on the table with no plan to achieve any of it, but they asked you instead to buy into a dream, details of payment to be arranged later.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I appreciate your apology and your trying to find a pragmatic way forward.
From a practical point of view, if the controls/checkpoints are inside the Republic, anyone crossing is already in the country, how would that work? You could offload any goods you wanted then go and get checked... or not, who's gonna know?

From a political perspective, I think the EU are well within their rights to say to Johnson's government - you orchestrated walking away from the EU, you told the DUP you'd deliver a workable solution, you drafted and agreed a protocol and told everyone it was fine, pushed it through quickly and without scrutiny, refused our offers to extend transition periods to help you bed it in, and now you want us to be flexible because your agreement that you negotiated and signed, isn’t working for you? Sorry lads, this is your mess.

People who want to smuggle will smuggle. There are plenty of minor roads and miles of coastline. Proper haulage stuff will go through the authorised checkpoints whether that's 2 miles inside the republic or 20.

I personally believe this could work but I have a myriad of people now telling me that any sort of check of anything, anywhere on the island of Ireland represents a border, and will definitely kick the GFA up the arse. With such insular mindsets I'm basically wasting my time even thinking about the matter.

I'll end where I started this discussion. It's not working from the UK side of things, and if there's no give from either the EU or the mindset of the people of Northern Ireland, we'll end up with the trade deal being dumped and the EU putting up border controls in Ireland. And when that happens everybody's a loser.

Silly of me trying to come up with something to prevent that happening. My bad.

 

[roydo]

Silly of me trying to come up with something to prevent that happening. My bad.

Could have considered it before you voted maybe?

I am sorry if that sounds vaccuous, (cos it is), but you being a resident of Cornwall, who voted to Leave, how is the new fishery arrangements and replacement grants to the EU ones coming along?

 

[ste d' indica]

People who want to smuggle will smuggle. There are plenty of minor roads and miles of coastline. Proper haulage stuff will go through the authorised checkpoints whether that's 2 miles inside the republic or 20.

I personally believe this could work but I have a myriad of people now telling me that any sort of check of anything, anywhere on the island of Ireland represents a border, and will definitely kick the GFA up the arse. With such insular mindsets I'm basically wasting my time even thinking about the matter.

I'll end where I started this discussion. It's not working from the UK side of things, and if there's no give from either the EU or the mindset of the people of Northern Ireland, we'll end up with the trade deal being dumped and the EU putting up border controls in Ireland. And when that happens everybody's a loser.

Silly of me trying to come up with something to prevent that happening. My bad.

People have said they appreciate your efforts, and it's not their insular mindsets, they're trying to explain the difficulties in a very politically charged situation with roots that go back for centuries. And again you're saying its not working for the UK and its everyone' else's fault for not bending to our will when we embarked on this course with no plan for executing it.

 

[Barnfred 55]

And any innocent people killed as a result, on either side, or here, do they deserve it?

To be honest mate if anybody in Northern Ireland sees produce checks away from the border as a reason to restart the hostilities in their country, then they deserve whatever comes their way, and people like me are wasting my time trying to come up with solutions to the issue.

Read the highlighted bit. They will be to blame if any innocents get killed. They and their bigoted insular views.

 

[Xizor]

I personally believe this could work

Except people have suggested it for years, and it hasn't been picked up and implemented. So regardless of what you believe, the technocrats on both sides who have spent year thrashing this out don't think it's a goer.

With such insular mindsets I'm basically wasting my time even thinking about the matter.

It's not insular mindsets, other people have just thought more about this than you, and aren't ready to entertain the same naive discussions from 2018 about what can be done about NI. We're past that and need real solutions, not to go back to fantasies.

It's not working from the UK side of things, and if there's no give from either the EU or the mindset of the people of Northern Ireland, we'll end up with the trade deal being dumped and the EU putting up border controls in Ireland. And when that happens everybody's a loser.

Yes, as Remainers have been both politely and impolitely pointing out to oft-clueless Leavers for 5 years, Brexit isn't a win for anybody and the negotiations have all been about damage limitation and mitigation. Everyone already is a loser thanks to this shameful procession. But you know what? Only one side started it, so perhaps they (and their enablers in the uninformed electorate) should look that way first when it comes to blame rather than look for "give from the EU".

 

[roydo]

Read the highlighted bit. They will be to blame if any innocents get killed. They and their bigoted insular views.

Anyone got the Irony Meter?

 

[Barnfred 55]

Could have considered it before you voted maybe?

I am sorry if that sounds vaccuous, (cos it is), but you being a resident of Cornwall, who voted to Leave, how is the new fishery arrangements and replacement grants to the EU ones coming along?

I wasn't a resident of Cornwall when I voted. I lived in Liverpool.

It hasn't worked out that well for Cornwall from either viewpoint you mention. But I put that down to our government just as much as brexit itself. The small boats (which Cornish fisherman basically consist of) were sold out in the fishing rights, and so far they haven't had as much in handouts as they would have potentially received from Europe.

Anyway, the usual as happened yet again. As soon as you put your head above the parapet in here you get hammered. My heads done in. I'm going for a lie down.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Anyone got the Irony Meter?

Didn't expect that from you.

 

[roydo]

Didn't expect that from you.

Not you. The Blue Wall folk.

And in your other post, you admitted that Cornwall has been sold down the river. Because of our Government. Does that not disgust you that folk were lied to?

And remember, the architect of the whole Leave campaign was non other than the upstanding Dominic Cummings. You, and millions of others, whilst maybe harbouring perfectly reasonable misgivings about the EU, believed the rhetoric, without question.

And now want solutions to an issue that was raised years ago.

 

[dholliday]

The vast majority of leave voters are unwilling to take any responsibility for the mess they've created. Pete is the exception as he's still here pretending everything is going well.

from some perspectives it is going well. Sterling against the Euro i linked earlier. generally economy doing ok considering.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Not you. The Blue Wall folk.

And in your other post, you admitted that Cornwall has been sold down the river. Because of our Government. Does that not disgust you that folk were lied to?

And remember, the architect of the whole Leave campaign was non other than the upstanding Dominic Cummings. You, and millions of others, whilst maybe harbouring perfectly reasonable misgivings about the EU, believed the rhetoric, without question.

And now want solutions to an issue that was raised years ago.

The mental gymnastics from Brexiters is very good, so much si if it we're an Olympic sport there'll be golds all round in Tokyo by Team Brexit.

However, two things are very clear, the UK government has been bested by a sausage. Secondly the UK government can no longer deny it signed an international treaty in error. When it was advised of incompatible components that would be a danger to the Protocol, it just ignored them all. They're reckless and irresponsible, something that many Brexiters have spent the last few years trying to deny.

As quickly and as efficiently and hopefully it can be sorted, there's an awful lot of vindication many remainers are rightly owed.

Now it can be seen by all that the EU most definitely holds the cards. In that there is no doubt.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

from some perspectives it is going well. Sterling against the Euro i linked earlier. generally economy doing ok considering.

I often get paid in dollars and the pound is not doing great shakes there.