But the issue is failure by the UK to set up control checks between Britain and Northern Ireland.
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But the issue is failure by the UK to set up control checks between Britain and Northern Ireland.
Alan Whittle
Player Valuation: £70m
Would your suggestion mean people access being managed at the actual border but goods being managed at a notional border at some point within the RoI? What about people carrying goods? Two borders? Maybe I misunderstood your point which I know was meant to be constructive but tbh it sounds tough to implement. Any creation of a new border, however theoretical, will have one side or the other issuing threats, demands et al.
Sorry, I might have misunderstood your point and we've got out of sync.
Are you saying abandon the NI Protocol altogether, take Northern Ireland out of the single market, and have a border between Northern Ireland and The Republic, but have the checks done somewhere else?
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
If you have bothered to read my posts properly you would have seen that I have said that the Northern Ireland protocol of the withdrawal agreement is not working. It was badly thought through or possibly not thought through at all.
I am merely coming up with what I believe is a workable alternative suggestion to prevent a "hard border" being put up by the EU. It's not a new idea but has been dismissed by the EU. I'm asking somebody to explain why that wouldn't work.
It would solve a massive problem and would show flexibility on the part of the EU which is what is needed now as the UK is hamstrung by the original agreement.
There is already a natural border between Eire and NI. The movement of people across this border is not an issue as it is covered by the CTA which the EU have acknowledged. So it is only goods and produce that need to be checked. I'm saying why do these checkpoints have to be on the border? Why can't they be a few miles inside the Republic, so as not to cause any issue with the northern republicans. It isn't the creation of a new border at all, they are just checkpoints so EU officials can check the produce.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
See below. Apologies for my curtness. I typed it before I saw this post. Soz.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
One more thing. There already is a border between NI & Eire.
Just don't use this to have any checks so nobody get's upset. As I said, people movement isn't an issue anyway. They can come and go as they please.
I appreciate your apology and your trying to find a pragmatic way forward.
From a practical point of view, if the controls/checkpoints are inside the Republic, anyone crossing is already in the country, how would that work? You could offload any goods you wanted then go and get checked... or not, who's gonna know?
From a political perspective, I think the EU are well within their rights to say to Johnson's government - you orchestrated walking away from the EU, you told the DUP you'd deliver a workable solution, you drafted and agreed a protocol and told everyone it was fine, pushed it through quickly and without scrutiny, refused our offers to extend transition periods to help you bed it in, and now you want us to be flexible because your agreement that you negotiated and signed, isn’t working for you? Sorry lads, this is your mess.
Alan Whittle
Player Valuation: £70m
Because elements of both sides will see it as a border (I recognise that it wouldn’t be) which would be politically unacceptable to one side or the other. I don’t doubt the practicality of your proposal but real politic will ensure it’s a non starter
Going brilliantly this Brexit stuff.
In what way does it resolve anything though? Moving the problem 10 miles away to a new 'pretend border' hasn't magically done anything. Do you understand what a border actually is? It's not walls, wire and checkpoints. Borders arise naturally wherever changes are made - in this case, regulatory jurisdictions.
So again, pick one:
* Regulatory alignment across both GB/NI and NI/EIRE = 'Soft Brexit' that includes SM/CU membership. Least damaging to the economy, but makes the nation rule-takers rather than makers. May foolishly ruled this out early doors, to try to establish her Leave credentials. Rabid Brexiters not happy, despite Farage literally trying to sell thes option during the referendum campaign
* Regulatory alignment across GB/NI, but not NI/EIRE = 'Hard Brexit' that thumbs its nose at the GFA whilst looking to shore up the Union. Popular with the DUP et al, considered unacceptable by the EU (due to looking after a member state's interests) and the US (due to strong cultural ties to Ireland). Hit to NI economy and probably resumption of the Troubles.
* Regulatory alignment across NI/EIRE, but not GB/NI = 'Johnson's Negotiated Hard Brexit' that throws the cause of Unionism to the wind by keeping NI with closer ties to Ireland. DUP can go suck a lemon now their Westminster votes aren't needed. The Sovereignty nuts (apparently 100% of Brexit voters as they all disavowed racism and declared not to care about the disastrous economic outlook) not happy due to internal borders.
That's it. There are 3 options, and one has to be the way Brexit happens. The second one is the only one that would (possibly) appease the Brexiters, but even this cabinet of arch-Brexiters shied away from it when the chips were down as they saw only impending disaster from tearing up the GFA and the consequences thereof. Instead they tried to pursue policy 4 - whine and moan that because you can't get everything your own way, everything is just so unfair and the nasty EU is being too mean.
because they, in essence, become the new border.
Doesn't matter if that customs point is north or south of Newry, it'll be the same flash point.
Brexit was put to the people with no workable solution to NI, the people voted to leave anyway.
A solution was found and agreed to to facilitate brexit actually happening but the British govt. is reneging on it.
It's the latest in a series of poor political decisions that are put in place to pander to a voter base.
The greater good of the region is, as usual, being ignored by London.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
To be honest mate, if anybody in Northern Ireland sees produce checks away from the border as a reason to restart the hostilities in their country, then they deserve whatever comes their way, and people like me are wasting my time trying to come up with solutions to the issue.
And any innocent people killed as a result, on either side, or here, do they deserve it?
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
But thats the whole point. We shouldnt be looking for solutions years after a vote. It should have been addressed at the time, evaluated, and then lobbed into the cocktail of ace reasons to Leave.
It wasnt. You have pretty much admitted that you didnt even consider it, (no crime in that, see above), but believed all the other crap Farage et al spouted. I am not blaming you, but surely the scales must be starting to drop from your eyes that perhaps you/we were sold an absolute pup.
If/when you accept a scintilla of that premise, you will soon turn to the next question; sold by whom, and why?
Alan Whittle
Player Valuation: £70m
Well, we might have said that about the current agreement. The history of Ireland was ignored during the negotiations to leave the EU and that was a mistake. That history tells us that whatever “solution” is proposed by anyone will suit one side & enrage the other. Tbh the problem we are discussing (customs posts) is merely a symptom of the wider malaise and a pawn in a bigger game.
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