Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Lord Buckethead]

Which for me is the story... Greed and capitalism good, coming out Johnson mouth and much of government and party is not news.

Greed and capitalism would be great is it didn't collapse every decade or so and need bailing out with Billions of the tax payers money.
Or is this a perfectly acceptable transfer of money from the nation to already hideously rich private individuals?

 

[orchard]

Altruism though @Barnfred 55

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

But Boris Johnson immediately retracts the comments made during a Zoom meeting with Tory MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think he's written about thinking greed as a virtue before, but at first glance this seems quite untrue here, it's the lack of greed and capitalism that's contributed to make it a success, as opposed to every other time they've tried to carve out and insert donors into our response to this crisis.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Greed and capitalism would be great is it didn't collapse every decade or so and need bailing out with Billions of the tax payers money.
Or is this a perfectly acceptable transfer of money from the nation to already hideously rich private individuals?

It is democratically acceptable...

Cant accept that anyone actually finds "greed and capitalism is good" as revolutionary news it's been the only way since 80s.

Myself did not vote Tory or for Brexit.

All I can hope is people get up this morning look in mirror and see Boris gurning back at them muttering "greed and capitalism is good". And realise the grotesque reflection is them.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Altruism though @Barnfred 55

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

But Boris Johnson immediately retracts the comments made during a Zoom meeting with Tory MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

He may be a tit but he isn't wrong is he. Profits from capitalism has paid for the vaccines one way or another.

But the fact remains that this country that you love to hate is still the only country that has produced and offered to the world a vaccine at cost.

But yeah. We're the evil ones

 

[Barnfred 55]

Newborough forest and beach is a particular nice place. Actually I really like Anglesey as whole some beautiful spots.

Doesn't that scouse chef have a restaurant there?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

He may be a tit but he isn't wrong is he. Profits from capitalism has paid for the vaccines one way or another.

But the fact remains that this country that you love to hate is still the only country that has produced and offered to the world a vaccine at cost.

But yeah. We're the evil ones

Greed and capitalism likely also delayed us going into lockdown in the first place

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

He may be a tit but he isn't wrong is he. Profits from capitalism has paid for the vaccines one way or another.

But the fact remains that this country that you love to hate is still the only country that has produced and offered to the world a vaccine at cost.

But yeah. We're the evil ones

Speak for yourself if you believe "greed" is something to be proud, plenty of evidence both morally and in legal terms, where greed very quickly leads to corruption, actually indefinable from each other most of the time.

It's enlightening people are defending "greed".

And actually you are missing the wider point... How this has got out from private meeting with influential 22 committee. They want rid of Boris.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Greed and capitalism likely also delayed us going into lockdown in the first place

Jimmy

I'm not defending capitalism. All I've said is that I believe more pharma companies should follow AZs suit and produce this vaccine at cost rather than make huge profits from it. I'd have thought most on here would agree with that.

Bruce, for some reason, thought that was worthy of linking me in to that article.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Speak for yourself if you believe "greed" is something to be proud, plenty of evidence both morally and in legal terms, where greed very quickly leads to corruption, actually indefinable from each other most of the time.

It's enlightening people are defending "greed".

And actually you are missing the wider point... How this has got out from private meeting with influential 22 committee. They want rid of Boris.

I never said that you absolute plank. Now I'm trying very hard to ignore your pathetic posts. It isn't easy I assure you. I suggest you do the same with me otherwise I'll probably end up stalking you again.

For the record though,I haven't said capitalism is good. I hate the greedy elements of it. I said Johnson was speaking the truth which you actually agreed with in your own post.

 

[roydo]

Speak for yourself if you believe "greed" is something to be proud, plenty of evidence both morally and in legal terms, where greed very quickly leads to corruption, actually indefinable from each other most of the time.

Exhibit A. LCC.

Tough this moral compass stuff at times.

 

[Jebus_lives]

He may be a tit but he isn't wrong is he. Profits from capitalism has paid for the vaccines one way or another.

But the fact remains that this country that you love to hate is still the only country that has produced and offered to the world a vaccine at cost.

But yeah. We're the evil ones

Not quite as simple as that.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

He may be a tit but he isn't wrong is he. Profits from capitalism has paid for the vaccines one way or another.

But the fact remains that this country that you love to hate is still the only country that has produced and offered to the world a vaccine at cost.

But yeah. We're the evil ones

In the case of Oxford and Astra Zeneca the answer is quite probably not. For instance, the university team will almost certainly have received a huge amount of money from governments, such as the €56 million Oxford received from the European Research Council in December 2019.

Oxford University awarded €56 million in European Research Council funding | University of Oxford

Oxford University has won the largest amount of new research funding in the UK from the European Research Council (ERC).

www.ox.ac.uk

Similarly, both the UK government and the EU gave Astra Zeneca huge sums to develop their manufacturing capabilities to produce the vaccine, with most of the orders for those vaccines given well in advance of them actually being approved for use. Most of the expense of drugs in ordinary times is due to the significant risk involved in developing them. This process was about as de-risked as it was possible to get, so I hardly think we can start knighting AZ for their charity.

The notion of providing it at cost doesn't make much sense either as the UK government is paying significantly more for the vaccine than the EU is. Given that they're both coming from the same facilities (or should be), are they making a loss on some vaccines or a profit on some? As the article below about branding illustrates, the world won't be looking on Pfizer as profiteering from this but as the company that has delivered on its promises. The same can't be said for AZ who have had a shocker (and that's got bugger all to do with apparently "hating Britain").

And the winner of the Covid vaccine brand battle is…

After almost two centuries of successful innovation, one company is about to get a huge fillip from the rollout of its vaccine.

www.marketingweek.com

 

[Jebus_lives]

In the case of Oxford and Astra Zeneca the answer is quite probably not. For instance, the university team will almost certainly have received a huge amount of money from governments, such as the €56 million Oxford received from the European Research Council in December 2019.

Oxford University awarded €56 million in European Research Council funding | University of Oxford

Oxford University has won the largest amount of new research funding in the UK from the European Research Council (ERC).

www.ox.ac.uk

Similarly, both the UK government and the EU gave Astra Zeneca huge sums to develop their manufacturing capabilities to produce the vaccine, with most of the orders for those vaccines given well in advance of them actually being approved for use. Most of the expense of drugs in ordinary times is due to the significant risk involved in developing them. This process was about as de-risked as it was possible to get, so I hardly think we can start knighting AZ for their charity.

The notion of providing it at cost doesn't make much sense either as the UK government is paying significantly more for the vaccine than the EU is. Given that they're both coming from the same facilities (or should be), are they making a loss on some vaccines or a profit on some? As the article below about branding illustrates, the world won't be looking on Pfizer as profiteering from this but as the company that has delivered on its promises. The same can't be said for AZ who have had a shocker (and that's got bugger all to do with apparently "hating Britain").

And the winner of the Covid vaccine brand battle is…

After almost two centuries of successful innovation, one company is about to get a huge fillip from the rollout of its vaccine.

www.marketingweek.com

They also reserve the right to declare the 'pandemic phase' over in July and can then charge whatever they like for it.

A cynic might think that delaying production to countries who had subsidised the initial capacity and research (to effect much lower purchase price) and thus make more profit through sales to those further down the queue was a strategy.

 

[Barnfred 55]

In the case of Oxford and Astra Zeneca the answer is quite probably not. For instance, the university team will almost certainly have received a huge amount of money from governments, such as the €56 million Oxford received from the European Research Council in December 2019.

Oxford University awarded €56 million in European Research Council funding | University of Oxford

Oxford University has won the largest amount of new research funding in the UK from the European Research Council (ERC).

www.ox.ac.uk

Similarly, both the UK government and the EU gave Astra Zeneca huge sums to develop their manufacturing capabilities to produce the vaccine, with most of the orders for those vaccines given well in advance of them actually being approved for use. Most of the expense of drugs in ordinary times is due to the significant risk involved in developing them. This process was about as de-risked as it was possible to get, so I hardly think we can start knighting AZ for their charity.

The notion of providing it at cost doesn't make much sense either as the UK government is paying significantly more for the vaccine than the EU is. Given that they're both coming from the same facilities (or should be), are they making a loss on some vaccines or a profit on some? As the article below about branding illustrates, the world won't be looking on Pfizer as profiteering from this but as the company that has delivered on its promises. The same can't be said for AZ who have had a shocker (and that's got bugger all to do with apparently "hating Britain").

And the winner of the Covid vaccine brand battle is…

After almost two centuries of successful innovation, one company is about to get a huge fillip from the rollout of its vaccine.

www.marketingweek.com

That was the reason I said one way or another.

I was aware that Oxford received a lot of government funding. But where do you think that government got their money from? It came from capitalism. From taxations on income, both corporate and personal, earned on the back of capitalism. From VAT on the back of products sold and tax on the transfer of assets earned through capitalism.

Regardless of that, you linked that article to me using the word altruism. I've only used that phrase once in these pages and that was to describe the agreement between Oxford and AZ to produce their vaccine at cost. I can't believe I'm getting called out in here for wanting the worlds pharmaceutical companies to not turn this pandemic into a profit making enterprise.

As regards the prices paid, there is not a significant difference between what the EU paid and the UK paid. I read somewhere it's costing us around £3 a shot and the EU about 10% less. That was down to the EU playing hardball over the price and negotiating it down, which will no doubt be reflected on higher cost for those countries that can't afford it anyway, and this has already been touched on by numerous news outlets. Good old EU. Not only are they forcing the cost up for poorer countries they are stopping the export of it too.

 

[Jebus_lives]

That was the reason I said one way or another.

I was aware that Oxford received a lot of government funding. But where do you think that government got their money from? It came from capitalism. From taxations on income, both corporate and personal, earned on the back of capitalism. From VAT on the back of products sold and tax on the transfer of assets earned through capitalism.

Regardless of that, you linked that article to me using the word altruism. I've only used that phrase once in these pages and that was to describe the agreement between Oxford and AZ to produce their vaccine at cost. I can't believe I'm getting called out in here for wanting the worlds pharmaceutical companies to not turn this pandemic into a profit making enterprise.

As regards the prices paid, there is not a significant difference between what the EU paid and the UK paid. I read somewhere it's costing us around £3 a shot and the EU about 10% less. That was down to the EU playing hardball over the price and negotiating it down, which will no doubt be reflected on higher cost for those countries that can't afford it anyway, and this has already been touched on by numerous news outlets. Good old EU. Not only are they forcing the cost up for poorer countries they are stopping the export of it too.

Not sure how you jump to that conclusion.

Also if we are defending the 'capitalism is inevitable' then we must praise the EU for funding the Oxford Research institute (to the point that the head of the institute is worried about how to bridge the gap left by EU funding post Brexit), for putting € into the development and production capacity for the vaccine, for it's continued state aid funding and development funds which will support vaccine rollout across the globe and for negotiating a better price for it's initial 300m doses.