Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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JimmyJeffers said:
www.theguardian.com

Britain used to be my home, but it's beginning to look unrecognisable to me | Arwa Mahdawi

When I first moved to the US a decade ago, being British had some cachet. Since Brexit and Boris Johnson’s premiership, it feels increasingly embarrassing, writes Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

I know our resident Brexit voters don’t like discussing this subject, but this short Guardian article struck a chord with me. Although I’m a white guy, this article mirrors many of my feelings and details those that I’ve seen in foreign national friends.
I don’t honestly know (or particularly care) whether we will be financially better off after Brexit. I have absolutely no knowledge of trade deals and would say they are very low down the list of things that are of concern to your average citizen.
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@Bruce Wayne has raised this many times before. I have no idea if it’s happening a lot or not at all tbh because of where I live. I’m sceptical of any Guardian writer, wherever they are based, because this Brexit = Racist view has been peddled from day one without any proof that it is actually happening. The whole country has been at each others throats for over four years because of an inability of either side to accept the other sides point of view. I agree with you that financial gain was never one of my drivers for our independence and I doubt whether it will make much difference to most people.

For me it was having responsibility for our own actions and future security. By way of example, for all the mistakes this government has made, deciding to abandon the EU led initiative to purchase vaccines and strike our own deals has proven a godsend, it will have saved many lives when you look at the absolute shambles taking place in the EU, driven by narrow political aspirations (Merkel wanting to show unity, and France wanting to purchase its own manufactured vaccine).

Hopefully the country can start to come together again, although yet another Remainer plot to drag us back in is as welcome as a fart in a lift. For those who got caught up in this or suffered any form of discrimination, we should all apologise, and I mean all of us on either side of the argument......
 
peteblue said:
@Bruce Wayne has raised this many times before. I have no idea if it’s happening a lot or not at all tbh because of where I live. I’m sceptical of any Guardian writer, wherever they are based, because this Brexit = Racist view has been peddled from day one without any proof that it is actually happening. The whole country has been at each others throats for over four years because of an inability of either side to accept the other sides point of view. I agree with you that financial gain was never one of my drivers for our independence and I doubt whether it will make much difference to most people.

For me it was having responsibility for our own actions and future security. By way of example, for all the mistakes this government has made, deciding to abandon the EU led initiative to purchase vaccines and strike our own deals has proven a godsend, it will have saved many lives when you look at the absolute shambles taking place in the EU, driven by narrow political aspirations (Merkel wanting to show unity, and France wanting to purchase its own manufactured vaccine).

Hopefully the country can start to come together again, although yet another Remainer plot to drag us back in is as welcome as a fart in a lift. For those who got caught up in this or suffered any form of discrimination, we should all apologise, and I mean all of us on either side of the argument......
Click to expand...
I suspect there are various parallels between Britain and the United States, and the difficulty has seldom been one of economics but rather who we are as a country and what it is that we stand for. This cultural basis is largely why the Tories have done well in the "red wall" areas as they are fellow social conservatives. You saw the National Front poster from the 70s shared in December Pete, and it's truly sad that all of those policy aspirations have now come to fruition under a mainstream party.

This is reflected even now, with things like anti-vaxx, anti-lockdown, and anti-social distancing all far more common among conservatives. I don't want these people reflecting us as a nation, and yet they increasingly reflect those in government at the moment. It repulses me the relish with which Patel talks about "dealing" with refugees, and the rhetoric very much mirrors that seen across the Atlantic under Trump. If Brexit was really a case of opening ourselves up even more to the world then that kind of rhetoric would have no place, and yet it's front and centre.

America thought again about its foray into right-wing populism with Trump and they've gone in another direction. That's democracy. If there's sufficient motivation to return to the EU in a few years then that's our prerogative, and just as you wouldn't expect the Democrats to down tools after Trump was elected, so too can you not expect those who back our membership of the EU to lay dormant. Heaven knows, the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party was vocal enough over the past 30 years.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I suspect there are various parallels between Britain and the United States, and the difficulty has seldom been one of economics but rather who we are as a country and what it is that we stand for. This cultural basis is largely why the Tories have done well in the "red wall" areas as they are fellow social conservatives. You saw the National Front poster from the 70s shared in December Pete, and it's truly sad that all of those policy aspirations have now come to fruition under a mainstream party.

This is reflected even now, with things like anti-vaxx, anti-lockdown, and anti-social distancing all far more common among conservatives. I don't want these people reflecting us as a nation, and yet they increasingly reflect those in government at the moment. It repulses me the relish with which Patel talks about "dealing" with refugees, and the rhetoric very much mirrors that seen across the Atlantic under Trump. If Brexit was really a case of opening ourselves up even more to the world then that kind of rhetoric would have no place, and yet it's front and centre.

America thought again about its foray into right-wing populism with Trump and they've gone in another direction. That's democracy. If there's sufficient motivation to return to the EU in a few years then that's our prerogative, and just as you wouldn't expect the Democrats to down tools after Trump was elected, so too can you not expect those who back our membership of the EU to lay dormant. Heaven knows, the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party was vocal enough over the past 30 years.
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I think many would be, and have been, much more accepting of a position where it actually makes sense - i.e there is logic of some degree to follow.

I can understand why someone like Corbyn would be a Eurosceptic, someone who wants complete deregulation and to a degree someone wanting 'to make your own rules'. But, in debate, either in the news or on here, rarely is the idea fully formed as a position that has any credibility beyond repetition of phrases/concepts which either (when you scratch the surface) cannot be adequately described or in many cases are the exact opposite of what those championing them are trying to achieve.

It's never been a sensible debate, I'm not really sure the UK has the maturity for it. Too much of the remain position is looking to find any injustice and the leave position is focussed on dismissal or wishful thinking.

I'm glad we've got a deal, I always thought we would. I'm still not seeing the point of it all, when I would suggest most actually don't really know what they're arguing about other than dislike of the 'other camp'.

And it will persist, because one side feels it was wronged and the other refuses to admit that the 'win' it's had wasn't actually what was intended.
 
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