Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Jebus_lives]

It's not "punishment" to have worse terms than we used to have. That was the bargain you voted for. You just happened to believe those who lied to you and suggested we could have it all.

I often forget, as I'm sure many Brexiters do in return, that some leave voters fundamentally think the UK will be economically better after leaving the EU. So the discussion never actually has a baseline to start from, because neither of us fully appreciate the position of the other.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Chlorinated Chicken...please say its clorinated chicken for the fume

My guess is baby food, the US doesn't really have any specific regulations covering those.

Global Regulatory Requirements for Baby Food

Baby food requirements vary around the world, but the desire to protect young children and promote healthy food is obvious.

www.sgs.com

 

[Jebus_lives]

My guess is baby food, the US doesn't really have any specific regulations covering those.

Global Regulatory Requirements for Baby Food

Baby food requirements vary around the world, but the desire to protect young children and promote healthy food is obvious.

www.sgs.com

Or milk generally

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's done on closest two border points Pete. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

Even that's not right. The farthest eastern point of the EU is Cyprus, which Google tells me is about 3,100km away from the UK. By contrast, the UK is roughly 3,500km from the most unpopulated scrap of Newfoundland.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Even that's not right. The farthest eastern point of the EU is Cyprus, which Google tells me is about 3,100km away from the UK. By contrast, the UK is roughly 3,500km from the most unpopulated scrap of Newfoundland.

Yes but it sounds impressive the way Pete said it. It might not be factual but it sounds impressive and dismissive in equal measure.

 

[orly]

Even that's not right. The farthest eastern point of the EU is Cyprus, which Google tells me is about 3,100km away from the UK. By contrast, the UK is roughly 3,500km from the most unpopulated scrap of Newfoundland.

?

Two closest border points = England / France vs NI / Canada

It's exactly right

 

[orchard]

Or milk generally

Corn products/wheat maybe...

 

[bluejim95]

I used to be able to deliver same day to NL, took some organising but possible. In low volume times, I've seen the cost to deliver by 40ft artic as low as £400.

A lot of dairy products come in from the EU. Without a deal, each one will need to have official milk certificates stamped by a vet. The cost of the Vet used to be around £600 for half a day, I would squeeze as many as I could in that window, but getting it all to happen was a nightmare. Documents by snail mail from Defra (no damages or you need to redo, twice for vet, demurrage for hauliers, handling fees for warehouse, no sale), trying to ensure the truck and Vet were there at the same time, etc. Guessing they also need an EUR1 form to get into the EU now, that has to come from the chamber of commerce, not much different than defra but you can at least fill your own form online, before its sent via snail mail.

When we start talking boats, apply the above but factor 2 times delivery, cost of container hire, cost of handling fees at port. And there is a reason that stuff was left in Lebanon, the port storage fees are stupid high, noise levels times 1000 if something ends up in storage at port.

Then there is the inco terms, they can be found online. I would guess most of the EU operate on FCA. They are all about the point of ownership. On certain terms, a third party is required to hold the cash whilst the goods are delivered.

Factor in demand changes, currently in the EU, if its selling better in another country, we can just move it there as long as the language on pack is good. That won't be the case outside of the EU, returns and stock moving just won't be possible as most largely depends on the country or origin. My experience is when new trade lines open, the demand is always over the top and quickly gets reduced. With slow reaction times and long lead times, quite often you will have produced for the next one before the demand drops.

That cost WILL be passed to the goods as part of the supply chain costs. A deal is a must or food banks will be in the rise.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Corn products/wheat maybe...

I think baby products or milk is more likely.

 

[peteblue]

It's not "punishment" to have worse terms than we used to have. That was the bargain you voted for. You just happened to believe those who lied to you and suggested we could have it all.

Not having control over our own fishing grounds. Having the EU ‘approve’ U.K. state aid whilst it’s biggest members just do as they wish. They are taking the proverbial....

 

[peteblue]

Even that's not right. The farthest eastern point of the EU is Cyprus, which Google tells me is about 3,100km away from the UK. By contrast, the UK is roughly 3,500km from the most unpopulated scrap of Newfoundland.

Try French Guiana......

 

[peteblue]

I used to be able to deliver same day to NL, took some organising but possible. In low volume times, I've seen the cost to deliver by 40ft artic as low as £400.

A lot of dairy products come in from the EU. Without a deal, each one will need to have official milk certificates stamped by a vet. The cost of the Vet used to be around £600 for half a day, I would squeeze as many as I could in that window, but getting it all to happen was a nightmare. Documents by snail mail from Defra (no damages or you need to redo, twice for vet, demurrage for hauliers, handling fees for warehouse, no sale), trying to ensure the truck and Vet were there at the same time, etc. Guessing they also need an EUR1 form to get into the EU now, that has to come from the chamber of commerce, not much different than defra but you can at least fill your own form online, before its sent via snail mail.

When we start talking boats, apply the above but factor 2 times delivery, cost of container hire, cost of handling fees at port. And there is a reason that stuff was left in Lebanon, the port storage fees are stupid high, noise levels times 1000 if something ends up in storage at port.

Then there is the inco terms, they can be found online. I would guess most of the EU operate on FCA. They are all about the point of ownership. On certain terms, a third party is required to hold the cash whilst the goods are delivered.

Factor in demand changes, currently in the EU, if its selling better in another country, we can just move it there as long as the language on pack is good. That won't be the case outside of the EU, returns and stock moving just won't be possible as most largely depends on the country or origin. My experience is when new trade lines open, the demand is always over the top and quickly gets reduced. With slow reaction times and long lead times, quite often you will have produced for the next one before the demand drops.

That cost WILL be passed to the goods as part of the supply chain costs. A deal is a must or food banks will be in the rise.

This is all true, but let’s not forget it is not all one way traffic and the EU will be going through the same in reverse. That is why it is really unfathomable why they have tried to impose their ‘must haves’ knowing full well that no Independent nation anywhere in the world would accept them.

Oh, and for those forum readers who have never experienced incoterms I attach a simple chart so you will know part of what is being discussed.

 

[peteblue]

?

Two closest border points = England / France vs NI / Canada

It's exactly right

So because Brazil is attached physically to a part of the EU does that mean that any deal with Mercosur will have similar terms.....

 

[bluejim95]

This is all true, but let’s not forget it is not all one way traffic and the EU will be going through the same in reverse. That is why it is really unfathomable why they have tried to impose their ‘must haves’ knowing full well that no Independent nation anywhere in the world would accept them.

Oh, and for those forum readers who have never experienced incoterms I attach a simple chart so you will know part of what is being discussed.

View attachment 101012

Totally Pete, hence me saying a no deal or WTO is a bad deal for us all, I include the EU in that. I think the general feeling is there will be a deal and with a little comprise we can see its close.

You know, I might have voted the other way to you, but I do get your point. Now is the time to get behind them and get us a good deal, with whoever that may be. The line is drawn and cant be moved, so its happening. The Japan deal is terrible, let's be honest, but what impressed me was the speed. If we can turn deals round that fast, that's the hope.

I think its all very fragile. It really wouldn't take much to go sour, but leave or remain, we'll all be bailing out the boat or sinking together.

EXW, couldn't remember that one! A lot of raw materials on those. FOB I used to use for all my outside of EU. I think I did DDP once, couldnt say which country now, did well to remember FCA.

 

[bluejim95]

I always liked the scenario of FAS and FOB, basically the difference is who pays if they drop the container whilst loading it on the boat. As soon as it touches deck, someone else's problem.