Current Affairs EU In or Out

[PSB1]

We're in this mess as the public have been openly and wilfully lied to by a Brexit campaign and Government that promised things they could not, have not and will not deliver.

Leave broke the law and then one of the worst Tory governments in recent memory were given a blank cheque.

You want me to get behind something that is divisive, toxic, born out of greed and xenophobia, will strip us of our freedoms, will cause economic decline and turn Britain into a cripplingly uncompetitive laughing stock?

Britain is already ~£66bn poorer (that’s roughly £1000 per person) because of Brexit, and we haven't even left yet. I'm yet to hear a cogent argument or a tangible benefit for going ahead with Brexit. But I'm happy to be enlightened...

Why don't you explain one actual tangible benefit of leaving the EU, backed up with data/evidence?
So far no one has been able to give one that stands up to scrutiny. Then we'll see about getting behind it.

Oh, and patriotic tosh and sound bites don't count.

I think your description of the situation is interesting but suffers, perhaps, from the fatal flaw that bedevils all the arguments on this topic: opinions are strong but provable facts are in short supply.

In the interests of clarity, I've no interest whether you get behind Brexit or not ... I have no emotion invested in the subject.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

The enthusiasm with which you banged your head against the proverbial brick wall was a give away.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I think your description of the situation is interesting but suffers, perhaps, from the fatal flaw that bedevils all the arguments on this topic: opinions are strong but provable facts are in short supply.

In the interests of clarity, I've no interest whether you get behind Brexit or not ... I have no emotion invested in the subject.

What it’s done is emboldened every racist in the country. Many people had different reasons to want to leave. Some more valid and rational than others, but the byproduct is a rise of nationalism and xenophobia. The effects will be felt for generations.

 

[Ron1878]

opinions are strong but provable facts are in short supply.

It's not an opinion that our rights are being forcefully removed.

 

[PSB1]

What it’s done is emboldened every racist in the country. Many people had different reasons to want to leave. Some more valid and rational than others, but the byproduct is a rise of nationalism and xenophobia. The effects will be felt for generations.

There is a rise in nationalism and populism. It's been traceable since 2005. There's also been an increase in assaults on foreigners. And gays. And women. This is all Brexit vote related?

It's not an opinion that our rights are being forcefully removed.

Some of your current rights will be lost. Not entirely sure what I'm meant to add to that.

 

[Ron1878]

Some of your current rights will be lost.

Yes, that's my point.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

There is a rise in nationalism and populism. It's been traceable since 2005. There's also been an increase in assaults on foreigners. And gays. And women. This is all Brexit vote related?




Some of your current rights will be lost. Not entirely sure what I'm meant to add to that.

Not entirely for sure. Personally think that racist attitudes have been on the rise since sept 11th, 2001. What we are seeing now, more and more, is these attitudes entering mainstream discourse

 

[Bruce Wayne]

People can argue that Brexit isn't thinly veiled racism, but then you get stuff like this, where there is no moral or practical argument for doing what the Tories are doing, yet do it they are.

Keir Starmer and Lord Dubs urge Tory MPs to rebel over child refugees

Letter seeks support to restore promise in Brexit bill to reunite separated refugee families

www.theguardian.com

The truly sad thing is, I know a few Jewish friends who proudly proclaimed their support for the Tories because they 'couldn't support antisemitism (ie Corbyn)', seemingly oblivious to the discrimination the Tories want to foist upon many other minority groups. That a Jewish beneficiary of the Kindertransport is speaking out only raises my bewilderment, but I'm inclined to think they don't even know what the Kindertransport was.

 

[PSB1]

People can argue that Brexit isn't thinly veiled racism

Of course 'they' can. It doesn't take a hugely agile mind to distinguish between nationalism and racism. Brexit may be a result of, but certainly not the cause of, nationalism.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Of course 'they' can. It doesn't take a hugely agile mind to distinguish between nationalism and racism. Brexit may be a result of, but certainly not the cause of, nationalism.

You're new to this forum. Good luck with your attempts at reasoned argument in this thread.

As somebody who has tried and failed miserably, can I just warn you that at times you'll feel that you have stepped into the proverbial lions den.

 

[peteblue]

To be fair to Pete ( my, that was hard to type ), the decision was made collectively by everyone in the UK. The fact that some things are decided by devolved governments in Scotland and Northern Ireland ( if it could pull it's ace out of it's arse anyway ) is academic, membership of the EU isn't a devolved issue, period.

You might want it to be a devolved issue, but it isn't. London voted to remain, and, lets face it, London is far more important to the UK than Scotland or NI, but Khan can't unilaterally reject the result of the referendum either.

well said....

 

[gonetomorrow]

The new EU negotiator looks and sounds impressive.

Can we keep her and give them our tow-headed clown in return?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The new EU negotiator looks and sounds impressive.

Can we keep her and give them our tow-headed clown in return?

I particular enjoyed the Full EU-UK trade is impossible by Johnson 2020 end deadline, which is most likely the starting pistol of wholesale adoption of EU regulations. Taking those rules...

 

[Walken]

If people who don't want brexit dont support it, it wont be a success and it will be their fault. Loving this new angle from team gammon

 

[peteblue]

If people who don't want brexit dont support it, it wont be a success and it will be their fault. Loving this new angle from team gammon

It will be a success, I just don’t want you Remainers to be miserable buggers for the rest of your lives......