Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

It has never been on offer, though - certainly not here.

How many politicians across Europe have ever stood on a platform that describes how the EU should look in 20, 30 years time (apart from the "we should ditch this" traitors)?

I agree with you, and I'd be quite happy with what you propose, but I'm also realistic enough to know that it's unlikely to happen.

 

[tsubaki]

I agree with you, and I'd be quite happy with what you propose, but I'm also realistic enough to know that it's unlikely to happen.

Indeed, but that is because of people like Blair.

 

[Khalekan]

Irrespective of the outcome of Brexit, I think one of the things that has come out of the whole Brexit process is just how fragile the UK union is. If the people of the UK have been given the chance to vote on membership of the EU, maybe the people of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales should also be given the opportunity to vote on membership of the UK.

I know it's something that the SNP are very vocal about anyway. Have the Irish or Welsh ever had a vote on leaving the UK?. Is there much demand within the Republic of Ireland for a united country or would Northern Ireland need to go it alone as an independent state if the majority voted to leave?.

The latest Opinion Poll in the Republic, taken the day of the Euro election, shows 65% in favour of a United Ireland.

Brexit is undoubtedly bringing the issue to the fore again as a big majority in the North voted in two Remain candidates for the three NI seats in those Euro elections.

How that northern vote would play out in a unity Referendum tomorrow is anyone’s guess, but the direction of travel is very much in the direction of Irish re-unification.

As you say Barney, the Scots are also very much pro EU and they will not stay aligned to Brexit England for long, especially a No Deal Brexit.

The Union is very much on its way out if Brexit goes ahead.

Which should surprise no one with any knowledge of history anyway.

These islands have had many different systems of governance over two thousand years.

England was part of the Roman Empire for longer than the current United Kingdom exists......the southern half of England was ruled by Danelaw for years after the Vikings invaded.....the Normans came and conquered..... we were part of the Plantagenet’s Angevin Empire for a couple of centuries before the Wars of the Roses.....we had Cromwell as Dictator in the 17th century.

The original Act of Union came at the end of the viscous sectarian wars in Europe in the 1600s and the bankrupt Scots were forced to accept Union with England circa 1701.

The Irish were forced to do so a century late after the failed Rising of 1798 and because the English wanted to properly garrison Ireland to close the back door to Napoleon’s rising threat,

But the first chink in the Union armour came in 1921 when Ireland (26 of 32) broke away.

IMO Brexit will finish the job and when Scotland and Ireland (6 of 32) eventually and inevitably leave, the age of English expansionism and empire will finally come to an end.

(though I see Wales staying with England....Henry Tudor effectivey annexed England for Wales at Bosworth )

Nowt lasts forever Barney.....not even empires, alliances and dictatorships

And one day in the future there will be no European Union....no United States of Ameriica either.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The latest Opinion Poll in the Republic, taken the day of the Euro election, shows 65% in favour of a United Ireland.

Brexit is undoubtedly bringing the issue to the fore again as a big majority in the North voted in two Remain candidates for the three NI seats in those Euro elections.

How that northern vote would play out in a unity Referendum tomorrow is anyone’s guess, but the direction of travel is very much in the direction of Irish re-unification.

As you say Barney, the Scots are also very much pro EU and they will not stay aligned to Brexit England for long, especially a No Deal Brexit.

The Union is very much on its way out if Brexit goes ahead.

Which should surprise no one with any knowledge of history anyway.

These islands have had many different systems of governance over two thousand years.

England was part of the Roman Empire for longer than the current United Kingdom exists......the southern half of England was ruled by Danelaw for years after the Vikings invaded.....the Normans came and conquered..... we were part of the Plantagenet’s Angevin Empire for a couple of centuries before the Wars of the Roses.....we had Cromwell as Dictator in the 17th century.

The original Act of Union came at the end of the viscous sectarian wars in Europe in the 1600s and the bankrupt Scots were forced to accept Union with England circa 1701.

The Irish were forced to do so a century late after the failed Rising of 1798 and because the English wanted to properly garrison Ireland to close the back door to Napoleon’s rising threat,

But the first chink in the Union armour came in 1921 when Ireland (26 of 32) broke away.

IMO Brexit will finish the job and when Scotland and Ireland (6 of 32) eventually and inevitably leave, the age of English expansionism and empire will finally come to an end.

(though I see Wales staying with England....Henry Tudor effectivey annexed England for Wales at Bosworth )

Nowt lasts forever Barney.....not even empires, alliances and dictatorships

And one day in the future there will be no European Union....no United States of Ameriica either.

Let the people vote on it then. Surely that's better than all out civil war like they had in the Balkans. I've always thought that couldn't happen here but..

 

[Groucho]

 

[Old Blue 2]

Henry Tudor effectivey annexed England for Wales at Bosworth )

That man was a usurper. RIII was the last true king of England.

Loyaulte me lie

 

[Khalekan]

That man was a usurper. RIII was the last true king of England.

Loyaulte me lie

lol

 

[roydo]

Him and Heseltine are so on the money with this. Its just a shame enough folk prefer the likes of an old lady who believes homosexuality will be cured by science.

Actually, its more than a shame, its bewildering.

 

[summerisle]

It has never been on offer, though - certainly not here.

How many politicians across Europe have ever stood on a platform that describes how the EU should look in 20, 30 years time (apart from the "we should ditch this" traitors)?

Er,

 

[tsubaki]

Er,

That is from 1972 (at the latest), and a lot of what they said has not come to pass, even though it is eminently sensible. That was my point.

 

[summerisle]

That is from 1972 (at the latest), and a lot of what they said has not come to pass, even though it is eminently sensible. That was my point.

I thought you said no politicians had posited how Europe might evolve ?

 

[tsubaki]

I thought you said no politicians had posited how Europe might evolve ?

No, I said no politicians had stood on a platform that describes how Europe should look like in 20 or 30 years (or a positive one at least). In fact if you watch that none of them actually do either - they just say what will probably happen, what "they" (the then-six) want to happen, not what they themselves want to happen (Dick Taverne came closest).

TBF if the closest thing you can find to it is from at least 46 years ago then that does sort of make my point, both in terms of the lack of any kind of positive message put before the people and the almost geological pace of "ever closer union".

 

[summerisle]

No, I said no politicians had stood on a platform that describes how Europe should look like in 20 or 30 years (or a positive one at least). In fact if you watch that none of them actually do either - they just say what will probably happen, what "they" (the then-six) want to happen, not what they themselves want to happen ([Poor language removed] Taverne came closest).

TBF if the closest thing you can find to it is from at least 46 years ago then that does sort of make my point, both in terms of the lack of any kind of positive message put before the people and the almost geological pace of "ever closer union".

I'm full up after my dinner, so I agree.

 

[Groucho]

Him and Heseltine are so on the money with this. Its just a shame enough folk prefer the likes of an old lady who believes homosexuality will be cured by science.

Actually, its more than a shame, its bewildering.

Always got time for Hestletine.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

No doubt this will be dismissed because of who is saying it, but it's pretty hard to dispute what he's actually saying.

I agree mate. It’s what I’ve been banging on about for months now to @peteblue and @Barnfred 55 but they seem to just dismiss it out of hand without providing any constructive counter-argument to explain how we could possibly be better off outside the EU in relation to trade deals with the big players other than “oh we’ll be alright”!!!!