Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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There has been a trend in recent years for people to consider human rights as something of a dirty word. Something that seemingly people don't think applies to them, but is a barrier to justice or implementing their own belief structures.

Abolishing the Human Rights Act, bypassing of courts in favour of direct ministerial interference (I'm looking at you Sajid Javid!), reduction in legal aid.

In many respects, it mirrors the Brexit debate. A complex set of institutions and structures that people don't see relevance with in their daily lives, that is not very well explained to them.

Which they only become aware of when it directly affects them.

It`s really is a very dangerous thin end of the wedge.
 
Which they only become aware of when it directly affects them.

It`s really is a very dangerous thin end of the wedge.
There is discussion among legal circles about 'justice' and how people use it as a rallying cry when it's issues that solely impact them.

'theres no justice' and, in some instances they are right, but more often than not, it's that their unique interpretation of the law hasn't been applied.

I had a chat with Nigel Evans, who was my MP at the time, about the changes to legal aid that he was voting through. He explained in very confident manner how it wouldn't have adverse effects on ordinary people:


Beyond parody...
 
My daughter has just started a new job in a nursing home, she said the place is rammed with foren agency staff like.
This is a wonderful position until they realise that around 100,000 recorded (not really any recorded data on agency staff) social care staff are EU Nationals and a significant proportion of domiciliary care providers (around 80%) are small/medium largely family owned businesses.

It's the point I was making earlier about Nigel Evans. People happy to go along with it until it adversely impacts them, then they want it changed.
 

My daughter has just started a new job in a nursing home, she said the place is rammed with foren agency staff like.

Unfortunately the countries who supply this labour and countries like Romania and other East European states are suffering from a lack of trained people for themselves. There is a major problem of ‘brain drain’ in many of these countries as they all want to move to Western states....
 
Unfortunately the countries who supply this labour and countries like Romania and other East European states are suffering from a lack of trained people for themselves. There is a major problem of ‘brain drain’ in many of these countries as they all want to move to Western states....

We're in funny times when Conservatives oppose flexible labour policies.

https://visegradinsight.eu/labor-migration-in-central-europe18062014/ is a decent article on views in the Visegrad btw.
 
Unfortunately the countries who supply this labour and countries like Romania and other East European states are suffering from a lack of trained people for themselves. There is a major problem of ‘brain drain’ in many of these countries as they all want to move to Western states....
Fear not for the Eastern European states Pete, I'm sure they will have plenty of returning workforce post Brexit.
 
Fear not for the Eastern European states Pete, I'm sure they will have plenty of returning workforce post Brexit.

It's an interesting situation as the Visegrad are nearly to a country all governed by politicians who dog whistle (and more) about immigrants, so they don't really have huge non-native populations. As with other countries, Prague, Budapest, Warsaw et al are a lot more cosmopolitan than the smaller towns, but still not massively so by the standards of London or Paris. Speaking for Prague, most of the migrants tend to be Slovakian (obviously), with Ukrainians the next biggest group. Unlike here, many of the migrants are at the lower-skilled end of the spectrum, which is not ideal.

At the moment though, these countries aren't suffering at all. Poland has arguably been the best performing economy in Europe in recent years, and unemployment in Czech is incredibly low. Certainly in healthcare though there isn't much of an incentive to stay as the pay is very low (even by local standards). The other half gave a lecture recently to a nursing school back home and very few of the students actually wanted to work as nurses, with many of those who did hoping to move abroad. The remainder just wanted a qualification of some kind and then get a job doing something else.

As with so much, the answer in large part lies with the local governments to make professions more attractive.
 
It's an interesting situation as the Visegrad are nearly to a country all governed by politicians who dog whistle (and more) about immigrants, so they don't really have huge non-native populations. As with other countries, Prague, Budapest, Warsaw et al are a lot more cosmopolitan than the smaller towns, but still not massively so by the standards of London or Paris. Speaking for Prague, most of the migrants tend to be Slovakian (obviously), with Ukrainians the next biggest group. Unlike here, many of the migrants are at the lower-skilled end of the spectrum, which is not ideal.

At the moment though, these countries aren't suffering at all. Poland has arguably been the best performing economy in Europe in recent years, and unemployment in Czech is incredibly low. Certainly in healthcare though there isn't much of an incentive to stay as the pay is very low (even by local standards). The other half gave a lecture recently to a nursing school back home and very few of the students actually wanted to work as nurses, with many of those who did hoping to move abroad. The remainder just wanted a qualification of some kind and then get a job doing something else.

As with so much, the answer in large part lies with the local governments to make professions more attractive.
I suppose with free movement, there is little incentive to stay in your native country if skills and experience can be 'passported' across to countries that have a higher rate of pay and better living conditions.

One principle of the EU is that money can be better distributed across the Union - through EU funding and growth schemes and, more in more oblique methods through personal redistribution of wealth. But it takes time and isn't instantly apparent to individuals within it.

I have some sympathy with the mindset of the students though as I studied law, but never intended on being a solicitor (despite the rest of my family doing so) and I now work broadly speaking in Health Commissioning via an International NGO.
 
So on Wednesday there will be a meeting with all the leaders of the countries that will be most affected by Brexit, in the Egmont Palace - before the actual meeting. If I were Charles Michel I would tread carefully, abandoning a hard line (without strict conditions) will not play in his favour for the coming (national) elections. And he's already under pressure in the coming elections. All because out is out (that bit is certain); but most are too incompetent/incompetent to agree the variety they please.
 
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