Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Oh for sure, the way we govern in Britain is rubbish, no doubts on that at all, but I'm a great believer in positive deviance, and in most cases you would expect there to be one example, no matter how small, to illustrate that the left behinds can be helped. Over 30 years though, whether under Tory or Labour government, whether in Tory, Lib Dem or Labour councils, I'm not sure such examples exist. This isn't just a British thing either, as I'm not really sure examples exist elsewhere either. And for the record, I'm not talking about 'working class' communities that have been gentrified and a whole new community emerge, but rather those where working class communities have been 'disrupted' and then reinvented themselves in some new way. If you have any I would be genuinely interested in learning more.

What is happening in Preston is interesting, and should be encouraged, though of course by design councils mostly have to absorb London's idiotic ideological diktats and then take the blame for them, and thus, their scope is limited.

Allowing local councils to design their own bus and transit systems (rather than imposing demonstrably failed Ayn Rand experiments everywhere but London), and then funding them properly, would have a substantial impact. This alone likely accounts for much of the staggering productivity gap between European regional cities and British ones, which mostly are on the order of Eastern Europe. Of course, Corbyn was roundly mocked by liberals on twitter when he raised the issue of busing in parliament.

Britain has also (mostly by design, partly just by neglect) persistently disinvested in education and training, which is also why our productivity is by far the worst in Western Europe: This can be easily be addressed by sensible policies and more investment; as it stands, the schools are in many cases on the verge of collapse.

There are many examples of post-industrial regions which have made dramatic improvements, all of which feature a very active state investing in infrastructure, research, and education. Pittsburgh is a perfect example of what Northern English cities could be like, if London ever got its act together, and the wealth and cultural impact could easily flow to Boltons and Wigans if we tried to meet basic developed-world standards of transit. Singapore was pretty much a washed up fading port with serious poverty and crime (not unlike Liverpool in the 1980s) before the government took the lead in creating a properly housed, cared-for and educated/high-skilled populace. It is always amusing how liberals manage to so consistently misunderstand its success.

These are probably far too small-scale for Britain though, given how badly and thoroughly things have been sabotaged or left to rot. A better model (particularly relevant to our own many post-industrial areas) would be the way that West Germany responded to the fall of the Berlin Wall - massive investment in infrastructure, public health, education etc, resulting in subtantial economic growth and the rapid convergence of living standards (though I suspect the East German education system was at least the equal of ours, and its relative social equality - likewise key to Vietnam and China's initial growth - puts us to shame). Of course the state will have to play the leading role in driving and managing this type of investment, as it has in literally every other instance of meaningful and sustained national growth: Germany, France, the United States, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, China, Vietnam. Serious economists of course know full well that even liberal fantasy islands like Silicon Valley mostly serve to repackage and profit from technology which the state develops. And yes, East Germany may never be as prosperous as the West (not least because Germany more or less gave up on investment with the Hartz Reforms), but nor does Wigan need to ultimately be as wealthy as London to nonetheless achieve dramatic progress.

I wasn't kidding when I said you should spend real time in Wigan, by the way. You would learn a lot. What appears to liberals to be the causes of poverty are often really just the symptoms. And you don't have to spend much time in the North to see how the economic differences here are explained much more by central policy failures than by the fact that everyone is a racist mouth-breathing Greggs-addicted troglodyte.
 
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What is happening in Preston is interesting, and should be encouraged, though of course by design councils mostly have to absorb London's idiotic ideological diktats and then take the blame for them, and thus, their scope is limited.

Allowing local councils to design their own bus and transit systems (rather than imposing demonstrably failed Ayn Rand experiments everywhere but London), and then funding them properly, would have a substantial impact. This alone likely accounts for much of the staggering productivity gap between European regional cities and British ones, which mostly are on the order of Eastern Europe. Of course, Corbyn was roundly mocked by liberals on twitter when he raised the issue of busing in parliament.

Britain has also (mostly by design, partly just by neglect) persistently disinvested in education and training, which is also why our productivity is by far the worst in Western Europe: This can be easily be addressed by sensible policies and more investment; as it stands, the schools are in many cases on the verge of collapse.

There are many examples of post-industrial regions which have made dramatic improvements, all of which feature a very active state investing in infrastructure, research, and education. Pittsburgh is a perfect example of what Northern English cities could be like, if London ever got its act together, and the wealth and cultural impact could easily flow to Boltons and Wigans if we tried to meet basic developed-world standards of transit. Singapore was pretty much a washed up fading port with serious poverty and crime (not unlike Liverpool in the 1980s) before the government took the lead in creating a properly housed, cared-for and educated/high-skilled populace. It is always amusing how liberals manage to so consistently misunderstand its success.

I suppose that's my beef, as from what I understand with Pittsburgh, the city has transformed itself, but it's transformed itself in a gentrified way that has seen manual steel jobs replaced by high-skilled tech jobs. It's the kind of regeneration that we've seen in Canary Wharf, which whilst on the surface is great, it doesn't necessarily help the low skilled blokes (it seems mainly a male issue). This has been commonplace in all of the studies of displacement that I've seen. Jobs are lost, whether through recession, offshoring or technology, and whilst jobs often return, they're nearly always higher skilled ones than those lost.

All of which comes back to the emphasis on education that you mention below, yet despite 70 years of state provided education, large swathes of the country still feel disenfranchised from schooling. I worked on a report for the Government Office for Science on this and it's rarely a matter of supply as much as it is psychological issues. So that family program I sent info over via PM could work if those coaches/counsellors/mentors/whatever were there to help people get back on their feet. That kind of work has already achieved decent results in areas like alcohol and substance dependency, so it seems sensible to at least try it, perhaps in partnership with the LEPs and other bodies that try and encourage local economic activity.

I wasn't kidding when I said you should spend real time in Wigan, by the way. You would learn a lot. What appears to liberals to be the causes of poverty are often really just the symptoms. And you don't have to spend much time in the North to see how the economic differences here are explained much more by central policy failures than by the fact that everyone is a racist mouth-breathing Greggs-addicted troglodyte.

Believe it or not, I've followed Wigan rugby league club for the best part of 30 years, with a signed jersey from Andy Farrell to prove it, so I've been to Wigan a few times, and even partaken of their lovely pies ;-)
 
I suppose that's my beef, as from what I understand with Pittsburgh, the city has transformed itself, but it's transformed itself in a gentrified way that has seen manual steel jobs replaced by high-skilled tech jobs. It's the kind of regeneration that we've seen in Canary Wharf, which whilst on the surface is great, it doesn't necessarily help the low skilled blokes (it seems mainly a male issue). This has been commonplace in all of the studies of displacement that I've seen. Jobs are lost, whether through recession, offshoring or technology, and whilst jobs often return, they're nearly always higher skilled ones than those lost.

All of which comes back to the emphasis on education that you mention below, yet despite 70 years of state provided education, large swathes of the country still feel disenfranchised from schooling. I worked on a report for the Government Office for Science on this and it's rarely a matter of supply as much as it is psychological issues. So that family program I sent info over via PM could work if those coaches/counsellors/mentors/whatever were there to help people get back on their feet. That kind of work has already achieved decent results in areas like alcohol and substance dependency, so it seems sensible to at least try it, perhaps in partnership with the LEPs and other bodies that try and encourage local economic activity.



Believe it or not, I've followed Wigan rugby league club for the best part of 30 years, with a signed jersey from Andy Farrell to prove it, so I've been to Wigan a few times, and even partaken of their lovely pies ;-)
I'm picturing the scene in the second Sherlock Holmes film were stephen fry has to go to that club
 
How can a deal get through if no one supports it?

Because it leads to the Tory party having a new leader. Just think of all the grubby intentions. The person who wants power, the side moves to win support...you can be my chancellor/foreign secretary etc.

Obviously I must be wrong as no one in politics is ever in it for their own interests... :hayee:
 
....so, lots will now depend on the DUP. I suspect they will abstain.

May resigns to allow an ERG Prime Minister to manage the 2nd phase, so securing their backing to her deal.

It’s so grubby.
 
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