Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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The more I read about Article 50 and the timeframes attached to it, the more I think that the EU will actually be on its arse before anything is concluded. I can sense a huge ground swell from the right within mainland Europe and can see there being seismic political shifts across the continent in the coming months and years. I can see things getting very turbulent, not just for us but for all EU member states, and have no idea how things are going to pan out

I said that many times prior to Thursday as an incredibly strong reason to stay together on this. The rise of extremism in Europe is nothing to be proud about, and Britain should have stood firm against it alongside our liberal peers as we have done throughout history.
 
No mate.

The single cause for this whole debacle is the Conservative's offer of a referendum as a hedge against Eurosceptics within their own party and particularly UKIP.

It was a commitment made that they never thought they needed to fulfill as they never thought they'd win a majority in May 2015. It's entirely caused by their inability to stand up to Eurosceptics in their own party and supporter base.

It was never necessary but giving a platform to right wing malcontents has proved incredibly dangerous and ultimately decisive and will cause our country irreparable damage economically and in status and reputation.

I do agree with that, but at the same time doubt that many of the ugly views that have been unearthed in the past few weeks were created in that timeframe. If nothing else, it's lifted the lid on a great deal of discontent in the country (I would argue unjustified, but my opinion is kind of irrelevant). We've seen with the rise of Trump in America what comes when this groundswell is ignored.

I've no idea what the answer is and certainly don't like what it represents, but it cannot really be ignored any longer.
 
No mate.

The single cause for this whole debacle is the Conservative's offer of a referendum as a hedge against Eurosceptics within their own party and particularly UKIP.

It was a commitment made that they never thought they needed to fulfill as they never thought they'd win a majority in May 2015. It's entirely caused by their inability to stand up to Eurosceptics in their own party and supporter base.

It was never necessary but giving a platform to right wing malcontents has proved incredibly dangerous and ultimately decisive and will cause our country irreparable damage economically and in status and reputation.

This is spot on 100%. I feel a bit sorry for Cameron so he must be getting sympathy out there. However underneath the posh statesmanlike exterior is a spiv and a gambler. He took a gamble that massively backfired.

It's clear both Gove and Johnson don't believe in leaving. They did so to position themselves in a stronger position. Likewise Cameron tried to use the EU as a timebomb to wreck Labour. He was hoping it would be a hung Parliament, with Labour-SNP coalition and to use the EU referenda as a political hot potato to sink a weak government and probably be re elected with a big mandate. In the end he has been too cowardly to stand up to Nigel Farage until it was too late and too cowardly to stand up to his own backbench Eurosceptic MP's. However it is hard to really feel sorry for people who play with fire and find in the end they get burnt.

I contrast his behaviour with that of John Major. By no means a perfect man but with more integrity in his little finger than Cameron and the new breed have in their entire bodies. He fought tooth and nail not to reduce the Conservative message down to just being about quite a hateful, small minded and at times racist nationalism but to incorporate aspects of social mobility, peace and trade. He lacked the upbringing and connections of Cameron and probably his talent and his premiership was ravaged. He will go down as one of the biggest losers in British elections but a small footnote may say he did so with principle, integrity and decency and not being prepared to surrender the moral high ground for the spivvy elements.

I am not trying to undermine the out vote by the way. There are a million and 1 good reasons to leave. I suspect a large number of people voted on that basis. However there is both a casual racism, a campaign based on deceit, lies and half truths and a huge amount of using an issue that one doesn't believe in to improve ones election chances that has underpinned the Conservative approach to this referendum.

We now have a country that is massively divided and angry. Young v old. Urban V rural. Rich V poor. Educated V uneducated. England V Scotland. Ireland V Britain. Native population V migrants or people they deem a different race. I appreciate that is probably what Farage wanted but I don't think it's what's best for the country. The Conservatives used to try to hold to those ideals and somewhere along the way have allowed themselves to be sidetracked.

The is 100% Camerons fault. He is PM and has refused to take a big decision out of being too cowardly to stand up to his own MP's.
 


He is right. However this is a guy who has lost 14 elections and still stole a living from the EU. How he can possibly accuse anyone else of not doing a days work when his nose has been in the trough for decades is beyond me.

As a slight aside I don't count his work as a trader a "proper job" either, not in the sense that it adds any value and should allow him to start questioning others employment. He has never helped anyone, supported anyone, create a job for anyone, he has traded off those who do.
 
To be fair I get why we can't vote again but if the vote was won with lies and mis information then it would be very stupid to continue on with the process knowing full well that it is flawed.

It's like us voting to go to war with a country because they have weapons and will attack us, only to find out afterwards they probably don't and we have no plan of attack
 
Brilliant. How much they must hate him right now. And I bet those of you recoiling in mock indignation think Dennis Skinner is hilarious in parliament.
And when they aren't missing the irony in doing that, they're planning to emigrate to Australia or Canada because they disagree with Britain leaving the EU and introducing merit-based immigration control.
 
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