Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Neiler]

EU if there is a MEP vote the Brexit party will rise from the ashes led by Farage i.e. Back to square one.........
Also they could be more popular than UKIP......

Nothing much se. to there, Farage was an MEP.

 

[edge]

I think the answer to that is financial. But I think they're also now starting to ask whether our kind donations are actually worth it.

Depends if you are one of the counties who are making up the cap on fiance after we leave or not, well if we ever do that is.

 

[nsno-chris]

But doesn't being in the customs union cover the movement of goods too? I thought that Northern Ireland being in the single market in addition to the customs union was purely to allow freedom of movement across the border. Am I over simplifying things?. Is it more than this?

Easiest way to break it down:

Single Market: this allows for the tariff free, quota free area with free movement of people.

Customs Union: Countries all join together to allow for the free movement of goods within the EU once they have cleared customs. Something gets imported into Liverpool and is customs cleared it can the move freely throughout the customs union without any further tariffs being applied

 

[Joey66]

If that’s your understanding of what’s been going on then you clearly don’t understand what’s going on

This treaty of deal is just about agreeing to leave the EU the trade deal is not binding legally.......

 

[Joey66]

I honestly don't know why they don't throw us out, we as a Country have never really truly got behind the idea as anything other than a trade block.
They want to move past that so it might be a lot easier for them to go along without the UK in the long run

They need us for our membership donations.....

 

[nsno-chris]

This treaty of deal is just about agreeing to leave the EU the trade deal is not binding legally.......

What are you going on about. It’s not a treaty, a treaty is a binding agreement between EU countries (i.e. Treaty of Lisbon). We have activated an article within treaty.

We don’t have a trade deal because we cannot negotiate a trade deal with the EU until we leave. The Withdrawal Agreement is not a trade deal, it’s a transitional agreement whilst we negotiate a trade deal. In other words, how we operate with the EU on leaving until a future agreement can be reached.

It does help if you know what’s going on rather than chat absolute bubbles Joe

 

[TraffordBlue]

The point I'm making is that it's being rolled out by some as something we should be standing up and taking notice of, when as you say, anyone globally can sign it, so it doesn't really hold any merit.

I'm still hoping the numbers could keep going up and up. Interestingly the no deal petition only got about 350K votes.

I agree with you though because at just 2m votes, it doesn't tell us anything. 16m voted remain so it's likely that all, or nearly all of that 16m would vote remain again, hence the relatively big numbers for this petition. If the leave side wanted to create their own one though it would be interesting to see which would get more.

My guess is the remain one due to the leave camp being split - e.g some wanting no deal, and the others wanting to leave but without a clear way on how to do it, especially given the current complications. Unless they did a petition to repeat the question of 2016 - e.g to just "leave" with no actual plan put forward, in which case I still think that petition would be beaten by remain.

 

[kenada_blue]

Feel free to read it for yourself.

Language selection | European Commission

ec.europa.eu

What it is the different MP's don't like, i don't think anyone will know unless they ask them personally. Where i live i can both write and call my MP's or their offices and get an answer.

I know this is there, the point is the mass majority haven't read and won't read it. Additionally most of them won't lobby an MP to find out what the problems are.

This is why it's ended up not being a debate that involves the voting public but a in fight between MPs and parliament.

There was a good point made on question time saying why don't the government put out what the disagreements are and what the deal is, and let people vote for it.

 

[Jebus_lives]

No that treaty drawn up by the EU is popular with them - hence the reluctance from our MPs to vote it through......

It's OUT though Joey. You should be happy no?

 

[kenada_blue]

It would depend on what MP's you asked.
Remainders don't like any of it because is isn't stay.
UDP, don't like the backstop .
Leavers don't like it because of the details on trade it basically ties us to EU rules, standards ,lack of state aid ect while doing deals. Plus the backstop, doesn't let us leave unilaterally.
Hardliners on the leave side don't want any deal at all.
And there is every shade in-between.
I voted leave but would sooner stay in than have it,
may as be in and have a voice rather than half in half out , which this deal is.
I have gone over it loads of time's mate in this thread but the jist of it is it's a bad deal pure and simple.
No good for leavers or stay voters most of the house know it but seen through there own perception of why is not a good deal.

I understand it. I just don't think the majority of voters and the public do. Just like the majority didn't understand what they were truly voting for in the slapped together referendum.

The point was if the MPs can't agree, then the whole thing should be laid out and presented to the public to take it away from them.

Basically the 3rd party adjudicator

 

[kenada_blue]

There’s a couple of issues revolving:
Backstop: if a trade deal can’t be agreed by the end of the transitional period (2020) the backstop kicks in to prevent a hard border. Extra checks will be in place on goods leaving NI to England which the DUP don’t like. To end the backstop a committee from both sides will be setup to agree to end it. But it’s known the EU won’t because the deal is beneficial to them

Future Trade Agreement: must consist on a joint consensus of working towards the same goal, a single customs territory.

Fisheries: the EU can only apply tariffs to British caught fish being imported to them unless they have access to our waters

Governance: the final withdrawal agreement, after the transitional period ends would be decided by a committee to manage any disputes. If anything is disputed relating to EU law then this goes back to the ECJ arbitration panel and they have the final say.

Which is the point of the post - why can't the government lay this out and let the people decide if they can't?

It's 100% too late to do that anyway and won't happen. But when it comes to making a decision, generally someone steps in and makes it for them.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I think the answer to that is financial. But I think they're also now starting to ask whether our kind donations are actually worth it.

It's a membership fee, not a donation. They aren't a charity and we aren't a kindly benefactor.

 

[JammyP]

Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.

petition.parliament.uk

 

[Jebus_lives]

 

[TraffordBlue]

Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.

petition.parliament.uk

According to the BBC:

Data from the petitions website on Thursday evening suggested 1.3m signatures were from people who said they were from the UK, 10,000 from France, nearly 6,000 from Spain and more than 4,000 from Germany, among others.

Don't understand their 1.3m figure when it was over 2m at the time the BBC wrote the article, as it only specifies whether you are a British Citizen or a UK resident on the petition. 700,000+ from outside the UK doesn't seem right to me.

Having said that, even if it is 2m, 8m, or 12m, I don't think it holds much weight at all unless the leave side set one up and theirs doesn't do nearly as well. In isolation this petition can't be listened to. Doesn't indicate anything other than those of us who voted remain still want to do so and have signed the petition.

If it got say 17m legitimate votes then they would have to take notice, but can't see it.