Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

Correct, that’s why I said war or economic decline.....

I would be interested in who of our friends have helped us out in an economic decline.

 

[tsubaki]

258-303 defeat for the Government

well its your party or your country now, Prime Minister

 

[Ruairi77]

258-303 defeat for the Government

well its your party or your country now, Prime Minister

also the SNP proposal to postpone article 50 by 3 months got soundly defeated.
It's all nuts!

 

[tsubaki]

she has gone mad:

No 10 says accuses Labour of putting party interests ahead of national interest

Downing Street has released this statement about the result. A spokesman said:


Jeremy Corbyn yet again put partisan considerations ahead of the national interest – and yet again, by voting against the government’s motion, he is in effect voting to make no deal more likely.

While we didn’t secure the support of the Commons this evening, the prime minister continues to believe, and the debate itself indicated, that far from objecting to securing changes to the backstop that will allow us to leave with a deal, there was a concern from some Conservative colleagues about taking no deal off the table at this stage.

The motion on 29 January remains the only one the House of Commons has passed expressing what it does want – and that is legally binding changes to address concerns about the backstop. The government will continue to pursue this with the EU to ensure we leave on time on 29 March.

Brexit: blow to May’s authority as MPs reject her motion by 303 votes to 258 - as it happened

Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the latest Commons debate and votes on what should happen next with Brexit

www.theguardian.com

 

[Harryflashman]

she has gone mad:

Brexit: blow to May’s authority as MPs reject her motion by 303 votes to 258 - as it happened

Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the latest Commons debate and votes on what should happen next with Brexit

www.theguardian.com

Stark staring

 

[summerisle]

she has gone mad:

Brexit: blow to May’s authority as MPs reject her motion by 303 votes to 258 - as it happened

Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the latest Commons debate and votes on what should happen next with Brexit

www.theguardian.com

Aah, the National Interest card, how subtle.

 

[davmaher]

also the SNP proposal to postpone article 50 by 3 months got soundly defeated.
It's all nuts!

It is nuts, but there is a logic to it. May and the ERG/hard Brexiteers seem to be entwined in a "danse macabre" where each is determined to get to the March 29th deadline. In May's case this increases the chances of her deal being accepted - as the alternative is no deal - for the ERG it gives the chance of time running out and us leaving with no deal. So they are both happy to support each other in getting to the end game. May is not interested in any option other than her deal and the ERG want no deal and nothing else. If Parliament cannot get its act together then the dance will continue and we will see where we are when the music stops.

 

[Ruairi77]

It is nuts, but there is a logic to it. May and the ERG/hard Brexiteers seem to be entwined in a "danse macabre" where each is determined to get to the March 29th deadline. In May's case this increases the chances of her deal being accepted - as the alternative is no deal - for the ERG it gives the chance of time running out and us leaving with no deal. So they are both happy to support each other in getting to the end game. May is not interested in any option other than her deal and the ERG want no deal and nothing else. If Parliament cannot get its act together then the dance will continue and we will see where we are when the music stops.

If May and the ERG are both playing chicken with the deadline, is there any chance of remainers on both sides uniting and undermining both of them?

 

[tsubaki]

If May and the ERG are both playing chicken with the deadline, is there any chance of remainers on both sides uniting and undermining both of them?

Yes - its the amendment that Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson are going to submit. It calls for a second referendum based on May's deal vs Remain; if Labour follow the logical progression of their policy they may end up backing it, and it might win.

 

[tim cahill]

If May and the ERG are both playing chicken with the deadline, is there any chance of remainers on both sides uniting and undermining both of them?

That seems to be the only chance of avoiding no deal now. It’s time for labour to play the 2nd referendum card. Time is running out and May will not budge so I can’t see another way of avoiding no deal.

 

[tim cahill]

Yes - its the amendment that Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson are going to submit. It calls for a second referendum based on May's deal vs Remain; if Labour follow the logical progression of their policy they may end up backing it, and it might win.

The problem with Labour backing a 2nd referendum is Corbyn. He obviously wants to avoid it because he knows if he backs it he won’t be able to win a general election.

 

[davmaher]

If May and the ERG are both playing chicken with the deadline, is there any chance of remainers on both sides uniting and undermining both of them?

I would like to think so, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus for any plan yet. For the Tories, there is a complication in that from what I have read the majority of their members wouldn't mind a hard Brexit and any Remainer MP's risk deselection if they are seen to be thwarting the will of the people. I think it's more than likely that the Conservative party will end up splitting over this. Labour could also go the same way, with the leadership appearing to be going against the will of their membership. who seem largely in favour of a second vote.
I read an article a couple of weeks ago, detailing how the traditional socio-economic basis of voting habits is changing and that we are now entering a phase where people will not vote for a particular party by rote but on individual issues and that a consequence of this will be fragmentation of the established Tory/Labour order. So the traditional working class/Labour and middle class/Tory lines will become blurred. Brexit is a good example of this.

 

[Ron Swanson]

This very much reminds me of the scene in Austin Powers were a steam roller edges towards a henchman at a snail's pace. He has loads of time to get out of the way but instead stands screaming before being squished.

 

[roydo]

This very much reminds me of the scene in Austin Powers were a steam roller edges towards a henchman at a snail's pace. He has loads of time to get out of the way but instead stands screaming before being squished.

Brexit that. Enjoy making your own rules and that.

 

[tsubaki]

The problem with Labour backing a 2nd referendum is Corbyn. He obviously wants to avoid it because he knows if he backs it he won’t be able to win a general election.

Not really - Labour policy is to keep every option on the table. Only by those options being reduced down - by the PM ignoring them (like the cross party talks), by being defeated in the house (as on the no confidence vote) - do you get to the point at which a second referendum is viable.

Even then, you have to ensure it passes and that the Government cannot set the terms of it (ie: that they can't offer no deal vs May's deal vs remain, or that they allow the same funding issues that Leave benefited from last time).