Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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So are you proposing we make a deal with the eu after leaving, trade under WTO or we stop trading with them altogether?

If we want to sell to the eu, we will need to conform to all their standards anyway. Look at how slowly their deal with USA is progressing. Not even one of the largest two economies in the world can twist the eu into dropping regulation. You think we will? Any deal or trade with the eu post brexit will involve us manufacturing to eu standards - rules we are beholden to but no longer have a say in creating.
There doesn't seem to be much attention paid to the fact that the EU is ones of the biggest world economies. We are currently trading and operating in that with complete free movement of goods and services. Currently it just happens without any checks or holdups, big business and any white van driver working and trading across the EU. You cannot replicate trade with US or Australia in the same way.

Even securing a FTA will not make up the difference and under WTO rules we become a 'third country'.

It's bizarre watching conservative voters, who preach about voting for economic growth seem perfectly content to be voting leave, despite the government's own forecast that says in implementing Brexit, in any circumstance we will be worse off and even Rees-Mogg says it may take us 15/50/100 years to recover. We'll get access to lots of smaller markets who will want to trade with the UK because of its economic power, but we cannot compete with US (who are particularly protectionist in some areas), China or the EU.
 
Here is another parody of Brexit, expats living in Spain who voted leave are now worried over no deal because they become foreigners where they are currently reside to their country of birth. Oh well, there is Karma! But some serious consequences.

 
Why a no-deal Brexit is likely
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-11/why-a-no-deal-brexit-is-likely/
Robert Peston

Most MPs tell me they believe a no-deal Brexit is a remote prospect.

They are wrong.

I would argue it is the most likely outcome - unless evasive action is taken much sooner than anyone expects.

Here is why.
1) The probability is low of the PM securing substantial enough changes to the widely loathed backstop to win a vote for her deal exclusively from Tory MPs, the DUP and a modest number of leave-supporting Labour MPs.

2) The probability is also low of the PM risking the break up of her party by pursuing all the way to a formal agreement. The negotiations just started with Corbyn and Labour on a Brexit deal - built on Labour's core condition that the UK must remain in the Customs Union.

3) The probability is better than evens that MPs will on 27 February vote to put a bill before parliament that would - if passed - force the PM to request a delay to the date the UK leaves the EU.

4) The probability is better than evens that MP and Lords subsequently pass that legislation which would force the PM to ask EU leaders to delay Brexit.

5) The probability is impossible to assess that every one of the EU 27's governments will give their assent to a request from the UK PM for a Brexit delay - and Brexit can only be delayed if there is unanimity.

6) If Brexit is delayed, it would probably not be for any longer than two or three months - or the maximum possible time that would not trigger an obligation on the UK to participate in elections for the European Parliament. A delay of two or three months would be highly unlikely to be long enough for MPs to work out what kind of Brexit deal, if any, they would support, and then to secure the assent for that from the EU's 27 leaders.

7) The leaders of the EU's 27 nations would take the view there is very little point in delaying Brexit at all unless it is clear what kind of Brexit deal would win a majority in the House of Commons.

8) There is no mechanism at present for assessing what kind of Brexit deal would win the support of MPs.

9) All the focus on the backstop, and the insurance policy for keeping open the border on the island of Ireland, has distracted from what is actually the biggest obstacle to a Brexit deal - which is that there is no consensus in parliament on what the UK's future long-term relationship with the EU should be.

10) If on 27 February MPs pass a motion that would then lead to votes in the Commons on what kind of Brexit or - or even no-Brexit via a referendum - would command a majority, there is no certainty that any option would win a consensus.

11) It is highly probable that it would take the UK at least another year to establish what kind of future relationship it wants with the EU - and probably longer to negotiate that relationship.

12) The probability of the EU giving the UK as long as it realistically needs to recover from its Brexit nervous breakdown and say with clarity what kind of future relationship it wants with the EU is infinitesimally tiny.

13) The history of the EU blinking at the last moment when the going gets tough is irrelevant here - because there are too many moving parts, and it is not at all clear what "blinking" would actually mean.
 
So are you proposing we make a deal with the eu after leaving, trade under WTO or we stop trading with them altogether?

If we want to sell to the eu, we will need to conform to all their standards anyway. Look at how slowly their deal with USA is progressing. Not even one of the largest two economies in the world can twist the eu into dropping regulation. You think we will? Any deal or trade with the eu post brexit will involve us manufacturing to eu standards - rules we are beholden to but no longer have a say in creating.
No the EU rules need to be a level playing field on food standards - even now some EU member countries ignore them who are in the EU, and we play with a straight bat crippling our farming industry - this is what happens when you are a member of an overblown too large polictical organization which has shown to be pedantic bullies and not just with us - oh by the way the last time the French withdrew their ambassador from Italy was in 1940 - =War - this is down to petty Makron a Europhile who did not like the far right Italian government talking to the leader of the yellow vest Brigade - why are the Far right in Italy upset with the EU - they have interfered with the Italian Budget.......
They say who wants to live in a institution - that's what the EU are a political institution - Yes a trade deal on a level playing field I accept, if not a WTO deal - their courts can go away - we want to be independent so that's why out won the referendum, and it should be upheld on a reasonable deal - then the next thing is to look at the enormous foreign aid program which needs sensibly reducing when our own public are visiting Food Banks.......
 
No the EU rules need to be a level playing field on food standards - even now some EU member countries ignore them who are in the EU, and we play with a straight bat crippling our farming industry - this is what happens when you are a member of an overblown too large polictical organization which has shown to be pedantic bullies and not just with us - oh by the way the last time the French withdrew their ambassador from Italy was in 1940 - =War - this is down to petty Makron a Europhile who did not like the far right Italian government talking to the leader of the yellow vest Brigade - why are the Far right in Italy upset with the EU - they have interfered with the Italian Budget.......
They say who wants to live in a institution - that's what the EU are a political institution - Yes a trade deal on a level playing field I accept, if not a WTO deal - their courts can go away - we want to be independent so that's why out won the referendum, and it should be upheld on a reasonable deal - then the next thing is to look at the enormous foreign aid program which needs sensibly reducing when our own public are visiting Food Banks.......
It has a set of standards that it expects its members to adhere to. It also has the European Food Standards Agency.

You will, I'm sure note this morning that Amber Rudd has blamed the public visiting food banks on Tory Policy. What do you think the likes of Grayling, Mogg, Johnson will do with the foreign aid money?!
 
It has a set of standards that it expects its members to adhere to. It also has the European Food Standards Agency.

You will, I'm sure note this morning that Amber Rudd has blamed the public visiting food banks on Tory Policy. What do you think the likes of Grayling, Mogg, Johnson will do with the foreign aid money?!
One Labour were in favour of universal credit as it sounded sensible on paper......
Two what the and where is the money disappearing under Foreign aid - I agree with us having a budget for it, but not index linked - oh by the way if we can't spend it all at the end of the financial year we had a fair bit of it back to the EU........ Again Labour is for a bigger foreign aid budget.......
 
No the EU rules need to be a level playing field on food standards - even now some EU member countries ignore them who are in the EU, and we play with a straight bat crippling our farming industry - this is what happens when you are a member of an overblown too large polictical organization which has shown to be pedantic bullies and not just with us - oh by the way the last time the French withdrew their ambassador from Italy was in 1940 - =War - this is down to petty Makron a Europhile who did not like the far right Italian government talking to the leader of the yellow vest Brigade - why are the Far right in Italy upset with the EU - they have interfered with the Italian Budget.......
They say who wants to live in a institution - that's what the EU are a political institution - Yes a trade deal on a level playing field I accept, if not a WTO deal - their courts can go away - we want to be independent so that's why out won the referendum, and it should be upheld on a reasonable deal - then the next thing is to look at the enormous foreign aid program which needs sensibly reducing when our own public are visiting Food Banks.......

The farming industry have said repeatedly that they need free movement of people, yet you're happy to ignore that. Don't pretend you now care about them.
 
The farming industry have said repeatedly that they need free movement of people, yet you're happy to ignore that. Don't pretend you now care about them.
Again you come up with free movement { I accept they are needed but on a visa system }when I was posting about food standards not being on an even playing field in the EU Bruce we have debated free movement of Labour many times ......I will ignore you on this occasion as you are going off topic today's post into todays debate....
 
Free movement from the EU.......

The farming sector are big supporters of it. The people coming here to work are big supporters of it. You're the only one that isn't, although I can't imagine why that is.

I was in Czech last month and spoke to a friend and her dad whilst there. Both had come to Britain to pick fruit for a summer or two. Both spoke excellent English, had postgrad degrees and were successful professionals, with the dad having a pretty big architecture firm. They came to Britain as youngsters to experience the culture and improve their English.

Not only would neither choose to do so since Brexit, but neither would have done so if they had to get a visa to do it. I don't expect you to know stories like this because you haven't actually met anyone who has done it.

A Czech friend who currently lives in Cockermouth had a similar experience last summer working on a farm in Spain. Of course, for her, that opportunity will remain open, unlike for British youngsters.

My wife also delivered a lecture at a local nursing school, and when speaking to the students (again, all of whom spoke good English) many said they had come to Britain for work experience in a nursing home in Cornwall. Few seemed as keen as a result of the Brexit vote, and of course none would actually get a visa because they earn (significantly) less than 30k a year. That's ok though as we have plenty of nurses to care for the elderly. We'll no doubt get plenty of British youngsters taking the new NVQ in arse wiping to take their place.
 
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The farming sector are big supporters of it. The people coming here to work are big supporters of it. You're the only one that isn't, although I can't imagine why that is.
so out of 17.4 million out voters where Free Movement was high on the agenda of the OUT vote - its just my fault over this point you bang on about - OK Bruce - Its just when I was was 16 I worked in fields horticulturaly - far cruder Labour of the automated machinery today in planting in fields , but as someone who has done it the hard way I have to accpet your ideology that no UK teenager wants to do it , and some gang master farmers are not taking advantage of the cheap Labour from the EU - by the way Farage and other MPs mainly tories get slated on here over Free movement -How about a Labour PM -
 
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