Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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why are you not celebrating this end of negotiations? This is question open to any Brexiteer!

I guess not.

But I do wish one of the posters complaining about what Tusk said, would say which plan they voted for or even wanted. Because if they can't do that then Tusk is correct. All Tusk has done is cleverly call hard no deal Brexiteers out on their bluff. Think it's only the guardian that has Tusk on the front page, the right wing rags it's nowhere to be seen.
 
David Cameron implied that “the rows of white headstones” that WW3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred.
No he didn't he implied the exact opposite that the peace and agreement we currently have was hard fought and the headstones were evidence of that (I'm defending him and I absolutely hate the man)

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented if we voted Brexit.
Not if we 'voted' for Brexit, but as a consequence of Brexit being implemented. Given the narrative has shifted to 'nodoby said we'd be better off but we would be in charge of our own destiny' this may still be correct.

Remainers suggested that there would be an immediate Brexit recession. There might be, it's being forecast by some.

Remainers claimed that 3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs if we vote Brexit. This is problematic as it was derived from a speech Cameron gave which he highlighted that 3m jobs were linked to trade with the EU, then the media and leave leaning politicians jumped on it as 'Project Fear' so in essence it was engineered as a red herring for those that wanted to claim project Fear and remain voters who couldn't be bothered checking facts or dealing with subtlety. I'm not sure it's as bold a misrepresentation as 'not a single job will be lost as a result of Brexit'.

Nick Clegg described a claim of EU plans to create an army as “A dangerous fantasy”. You assume that this wasn't directed at both parties. And I'm yet to see or understand how the EU will create a European army given that military commitment and decisions regarding defence are the remit of individual government and aren't covered under the Treaty of the European Union. This is actual project fear stuff.


Now, putting all this lot aside, the Remainers I am unhappy with are those that are still trying to undermine the vote and those who have wilfully and destructively undermined our negotiating position. I have no problem with any Remainer who voted because that was what they believed. However, after the vote, I have a great problem with those now undermining the U.K. ......
Try again Pete
 
David Cameron implied that “the rows of white headstones” that WW3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred.

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented if we voted Brexit.

Remainers suggested that there would be an immediate Brexit recession.

Remainers claimed that 3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs if we vote Brexit.

Nick Clegg described a claim of EU plans to create an army as “A dangerous fantasy”.


Now, putting all this lot aside, the Remainers I am unhappy with are those that are still trying to undermine the vote and those who have wilfully and destructively undermined our negotiating position. I have no problem with any Remainer who voted because that was what they believed. However, after the vote, I have a great problem with those now undermining the U.K. ......

For someone so sure of their opinions Pete, it baffles me just how wrong they so often are. Firstly, Cameron didn't predict WW3, that was spin applied by the media. He, and all of the living former heads of NATO, predicted that a vote to leave could destabilise the western world and lead to greater security problems.

Similarly, the claims by Osborne were made on the back of reports published by the Treasury (https://assets.publishing.service.g...ate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf), the BoE and the IMF, which explored the impact of Britain exiting the EU the day after the vote. The no deal scenario has widely been dismissed as project fear, despite the document I shared that was published by the government this week outlining some of the measures being undertaken to account for it (which I suspect you haven't read).

Regarding your statement about an EU army, that was first proposed 68 years ago - https://www.cvce.eu/content/publica...af1-44c1-b313-212b31cad878/publishable_fr.pdf - yet still, despite politicians regularly suggesting one should exist, we don't have one. Is the German CDU leader who proposed one this week any different to Alain Juppe when he did so in 1996? Trump has repeatedly been saying that Europe needs to invest more in its armed forces so that it can defend itself without requiring America to do so on its behalf, yet when it does that, people like yourself get all wet in the gusset. It's a complete nonsense and I'd expect someone with your defence industry experience to know only too well how long this idea has been batted around without ever getting even remotely close to fruition.
 
My favourite line-

“Why they couldn’t pull together and support my vague, woolly, feel-good field-of-unicorns vision of the future is an outrage.
It's much easier to generate anger about a statement that you've deliberately misinterpreted than the one that was actually said - unless of course you actually did say it, then you have to pretend that you didn't and find a scapegoat.

This is the current position of Farage, Mogg, Davis et al.
 
For someone so sure of their opinions Pete, it baffles me just how wrong they so often are. Firstly, Cameron didn't predict WW3, that was spin applied by the media. He, and all of the living former heads of NATO, predicted that a vote to leave could destabilise the western world and lead to greater security problems.

Similarly, the claims by Osborne were made on the back of reports published by the Treasury (https://assets.publishing.service.g...ate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf), the BoE and the IMF, which explored the impact of Britain exiting the EU the day after the vote. The no deal scenario has widely been dismissed as project fear, despite the document I shared that was published by the government this week outlining some of the measures being undertaken to account for it (which I suspect you haven't read).

Regarding your statement about an EU army, that was first proposed 68 years ago - https://www.cvce.eu/content/publica...af1-44c1-b313-212b31cad878/publishable_fr.pdf - yet still, despite politicians regularly suggesting one should exist, we don't have one. Is the German CDU leader who proposed one this week any different to Alain Juppe when he did so in 1996? Trump has repeatedly been saying that Europe needs to invest more in its armed forces so that it can defend itself without requiring America to do so on its behalf, yet when it does that, people like yourself get all wet in the gusset. It's a complete nonsense and I'd expect someone with your defence industry experience to know only too well how long this idea has been batted around without ever getting even remotely close to fruition.

Dunning Kruger Chart.webp
 
Indeed, there was some research out recently showing that those with the most extreme political opinions fared worst of all on that spectrum.
It's not surprising, you only have to see some of the extremes on across all media. Corbyn, Leave, Remain, UKIP, Tommy Robinsons, Trump's followers all guilty of it. The difficulty they have is when steered into a topic their figurehead hasn't given comment on, it's awkward watching when independent and rational thought needs to be applied.
 
It's not surprising, you only have to see some of the extremes on across all media. Corbyn, Leave, Remain, UKIP, Tommy Robinsons, Trump's followers all guilty of it. The difficulty they have is when steered into a topic their figurehead hasn't given comment on, it's awkward watching when independent and rational thought needs to be applied.

I see it here all the time tbh.....
 
https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/brexit_has_already

The higher price of stuff since 2016 has already cost the average Brit a week's wages.
A university Bruce?!? Quoting academic research and experts as if facts and evidence is more informed than an Ill informed belief. Shame!

Get posting some proper factual evidence like something you've seen with your own eyes, an irrational fear, a gut feeling, the Telegraph, Daily Mail or the Express....
 
A university Bruce?!? Quoting academic research and experts as if facts and evidence is more informed than an Ill informed belief. Shame!

Get posting some proper factual evidence like something you've seen with your own eyes, an irrational fear, a gut feeling, the Telegraph, Daily Mail or the Express....

To be fair, I doubt they've ever had grot under their finger nails so we can safely discount whatever they say.
 
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