Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
peteblue said:
David Cameron implied that “the rows of white headstones” that WW3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred.

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented if we voted Brexit.

Remainers suggested that there would be an immediate Brexit recession.

Remainers claimed that 3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs if we vote Brexit.

Nick Clegg described a claim of EU plans to create an army as “A dangerous fantasy”.


Now, putting all this lot aside, the Remainers I am unhappy with are those that are still trying to undermine the vote and those who have wilfully and destructively undermined our negotiating position. I have no problem with any Remainer who voted because that was what they believed. However, after the vote, I have a great problem with those now undermining the U.K. ......
Click to expand...
Nick Clegg described a claim of EU plans to create an army as “A dangerous fantasy” in March 2015 as Deputy PM in Cameron's government. WHat is wrong with an EU army?
"The first deployment of European troops under the ESDP, following the 1999 declaration of intent, was in March 2003 in the Republic of Macedonia. Operation Concordia used NATO assets and was considered a success and replaced by a smaller police mission, EUPOL Proxima, later that year. Since then, there have been other small police, justice and monitoring missions. As well as the Republic of Macedonia, the EU has maintained its deployment of peacekeepers in Bosnia and Herzegovina, as part of Operation Althea.[8]
Between May and September 2003 EU troops were deployed to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) during "Operation Artemis" under a mandate given by UN Security Council Resolution 1484 which aimed to prevent further atrocities and violence in the Ituri Conflict and put the DRC's peace process back on track. This laid out the "framework nation" system to be used in future deployments. The EU returned to the DRC during July–November 2006 with EUFOR RD Congo, which supported the UN mission there during the country's elections.
Geographically, EU missions outside the Balkans and the DRC have taken place in Georgia, Indonesia, Sudan, Palestine, and Ukraine–Moldova. There is also a judicial mission in Iraq (EUJUST Lex). On 28 January 2008, the EU deployed its largest and most multi-national mission to Africa, EUFOR Tchad/RCA.[9] The UN-mandated mission involves troops from 25 EU states (19 in the field) deployed in areas of eastern Chad and the north-eastern Central African Republic in order to improve security in those regions. EUFOR Tchad/RCA reached full operation capability in mid-September 2008, and handed over security duties to the UN (MINURCAT mission) in mid-March 2009.[10]
The EU launched its first maritime CSDP operation on 12 December 2008 (Operation Atalanta). The concept of the European Union Naval Force (EU NAVFOR) was created on the back of this operation, which is still successfully combatting piracy off the coast of Somalia almost a decade later. A second such intervention was launched in 2015 to tackle migration problems in the southern Mediterranean (EUNAVFOR Med), working under the name Operation SOPHIA.
Most of the CSDP missions deployed so far are mandated to support Security Sector Reforms (SSR) in host-states. One of the core principles of CSDP support to SSR is local ownership. The EU Council defines ownership as "the appropriation by the local authorities of the commonly agreed objectives and principles".[11] Despite EU's strong rhetorical attachment to the local ownership principle, research shows that CSDP missions continue to be an externally driven, top-down and supply-driven endeavour, resulting often in the low degree of local participation.[12]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy
Reads like progress to me - cooperation is certainly better than war
.
 
JammyP said:
Nick Clegg described a claim of EU plans to create an army as “A dangerous fantasy” in March 2015 as Deputy PM in Cameron's government. WHat is wrong with an EU army?
"The first deployment of European troops under the ESDP, following the 1999 declaration of intent, was in March 2003 in the Republic of Macedonia. Operation Concordia used NATO assets and was considered a success and replaced by a smaller police mission, EUPOL Proxima, later that year. Since then, there have been other small police, justice and monitoring missions. As well as the Republic of Macedonia, the EU has maintained its deployment of peacekeepers in Bosnia and Herzegovina, as part of Operation Althea.[8]
Between May and September 2003 EU troops were deployed to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) during "Operation Artemis" under a mandate given by UN Security Council Resolution 1484 which aimed to prevent further atrocities and violence in the Ituri Conflict and put the DRC's peace process back on track. This laid out the "framework nation" system to be used in future deployments. The EU returned to the DRC during July–November 2006 with EUFOR RD Congo, which supported the UN mission there during the country's elections.
Geographically, EU missions outside the Balkans and the DRC have taken place in Georgia, Indonesia, Sudan, Palestine, and Ukraine–Moldova. There is also a judicial mission in Iraq (EUJUST Lex). On 28 January 2008, the EU deployed its largest and most multi-national mission to Africa, EUFOR Tchad/RCA.[9] The UN-mandated mission involves troops from 25 EU states (19 in the field) deployed in areas of eastern Chad and the north-eastern Central African Republic in order to improve security in those regions. EUFOR Tchad/RCA reached full operation capability in mid-September 2008, and handed over security duties to the UN (MINURCAT mission) in mid-March 2009.[10]
The EU launched its first maritime CSDP operation on 12 December 2008 (Operation Atalanta). The concept of the European Union Naval Force (EU NAVFOR) was created on the back of this operation, which is still successfully combatting piracy off the coast of Somalia almost a decade later. A second such intervention was launched in 2015 to tackle migration problems in the southern Mediterranean (EUNAVFOR Med), working under the name Operation SOPHIA.
Most of the CSDP missions deployed so far are mandated to support Security Sector Reforms (SSR) in host-states. One of the core principles of CSDP support to SSR is local ownership. The EU Council defines ownership as "the appropriation by the local authorities of the commonly agreed objectives and principles".[11] Despite EU's strong rhetorical attachment to the local ownership principle, research shows that CSDP missions continue to be an externally driven, top-down and supply-driven endeavour, resulting often in the low degree of local participation.[12]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy
Reads like progress to me - cooperation is certainly better than war
.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I can’t be arsed reading wiki......
 
The game is almost up. The lack of smiles in Brussels today told it's own story.

May seems to have finally accepted that the Withdrawal Agreement won't be renegotiated and the backstop won't be dropped. She hinted as much herself in Belfast yesterday. The most she will get is reassuring words that it is unlikely that the backstop will ever be used.

With the deadline fast approaching hopefully the time has come for her to make an actual decision on how to proceed with this self-inflicted catastrophic mess.
 
Mark O'Silver said:
The game is almost up. The lack of smiles in Brussels today told it's own story.

May seems to have finally accepted that the Withdrawal Agreement won't be renegotiated and the backstop won't be dropped. She hinted as much herself in Belfast yesterday. The most she will get is reassuring words that it is unlikely that the backstop will ever be used.

With the deadline fast approaching hopefully the time has come for her to make an actual decision on how to proceed with this self-inflicted catastrophic mess.
Click to expand...


The Torygraph was claiming last night they will be delaying next week's vote; if she does it we could see Parliament sitting at the weekends.
 
JammyP said:
Nick Clegg described a claim of EU plans to create an army as “A dangerous fantasy” in March 2015 as Deputy PM in Cameron's government. WHat is wrong with an EU army?
"The first deployment of European troops under the ESDP, following the 1999 declaration of intent, was in March 2003 in the Republic of Macedonia. Operation Concordia used NATO assets and was considered a success and replaced by a smaller police mission, EUPOL Proxima, later that year. Since then, there have been other small police, justice and monitoring missions. As well as the Republic of Macedonia, the EU has maintained its deployment of peacekeepers in Bosnia and Herzegovina, as part of Operation Althea.[8]
Between May and September 2003 EU troops were deployed to the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) during "Operation Artemis" under a mandate given by UN Security Council Resolution 1484 which aimed to prevent further atrocities and violence in the Ituri Conflict and put the DRC's peace process back on track. This laid out the "framework nation" system to be used in future deployments. The EU returned to the DRC during July–November 2006 with EUFOR RD Congo, which supported the UN mission there during the country's elections.
Geographically, EU missions outside the Balkans and the DRC have taken place in Georgia, Indonesia, Sudan, Palestine, and Ukraine–Moldova. There is also a judicial mission in Iraq (EUJUST Lex). On 28 January 2008, the EU deployed its largest and most multi-national mission to Africa, EUFOR Tchad/RCA.[9] The UN-mandated mission involves troops from 25 EU states (19 in the field) deployed in areas of eastern Chad and the north-eastern Central African Republic in order to improve security in those regions. EUFOR Tchad/RCA reached full operation capability in mid-September 2008, and handed over security duties to the UN (MINURCAT mission) in mid-March 2009.[10]
The EU launched its first maritime CSDP operation on 12 December 2008 (Operation Atalanta). The concept of the European Union Naval Force (EU NAVFOR) was created on the back of this operation, which is still successfully combatting piracy off the coast of Somalia almost a decade later. A second such intervention was launched in 2015 to tackle migration problems in the southern Mediterranean (EUNAVFOR Med), working under the name Operation SOPHIA.
Most of the CSDP missions deployed so far are mandated to support Security Sector Reforms (SSR) in host-states. One of the core principles of CSDP support to SSR is local ownership. The EU Council defines ownership as "the appropriation by the local authorities of the commonly agreed objectives and principles".[11] Despite EU's strong rhetorical attachment to the local ownership principle, research shows that CSDP missions continue to be an externally driven, top-down and supply-driven endeavour, resulting often in the low degree of local participation.[12]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy
Reads like progress to me - cooperation is certainly better than war
.
Click to expand...

Indeed. A hypothetical pan-EU armed force formed tomorrow from current EU members (including us) would have slightly more active members than the US armed forces have (around 1.3 million, though that includes the quasi-police units in Italy and France), around half the funding the US armed forces have (so more than the Russians and the Chinese) and have the second most powerful navy in the world. After 10-20 years of consolidation (so that equipment was standardized, training was brought up to the level of the best forces and they were all taught the same language) the force would be considerably more effective than it would be on day one.

You can see why so many of the Atlanticists are against the idea; the people who pay them really do not want a rival - which is what an EU force really would be.
 
tsubaki said:
Indeed. A hypothetical pan-EU armed force formed tomorrow from current EU members (including us) would have slightly more active members than the US armed forces have (around 1.3 million, though that includes the quasi-police units in Italy and France), around half the funding the US armed forces have (so more than the Russians and the Chinese) and have the second most powerful navy in the world. After 10-20 years of consolidation (so that equipment was standardized, training was brought up to the level of the best forces and they were all taught the same language) the force would be considerably more effective than it would be on day one.

You can see why so many of the Atlanticists are against the idea; the people who pay them really do not want a rival - which is what an EU force really would be.
Click to expand...

It would indeed be a rival. Personally I believe that the fewer military rivals the USA has the safer the planet is.........
 
Mark O'Silver said:
The game is almost up. The lack of smiles in Brussels today told it's own story.

May seems to have finally accepted that the Withdrawal Agreement won't be renegotiated and the backstop won't be dropped. She hinted as much herself in Belfast yesterday. The most she will get is reassuring words that it is unlikely that the backstop will ever be used.

With the deadline fast approaching hopefully the time has come for her to make an actual decision on how to proceed with this self-inflicted catastrophic mess.
Click to expand...

“Britain will cut taxes and slash tariffs under secret plans drawn up by officials to kick-start the economy in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Sir Mark Sedwill, the Cabinet Secretary, has led a cross-departmental team examining the "economic levers" that can be used to make Britain more competitive.
The plans, which have been drawn up under the codename "Project After", include a series of aggressive policies to help the UK "steal a march" on the European Union.
The most significant measures include cuts to corporation tax and VAT along with further tax relief to encourage more business investment.”

The game is indeed almost up.......
 
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