Blues Harp
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"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter" lollol
Current Affairs EU In or Out
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this is great!
Carl O'Ancelotti
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Good piece of analysis this...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47121851
Wasn't the Treaty amended to take note of Ireland's concerns?
Carl O'Ancelotti
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As I understand it there were amendments made to the constitution to take account of some aspects of the Treaty. The problem really was that the government were too complacent that the 1st referendum would pass and were reminded by the result of it not to take the will of the people for granted.
I can't see how the EU would have amended the Treaty itself otherwise it would have had to seek reapproval from those EU states which had already passed it via their parliaments such as the UK who approved it in June 2008.
A poll after the 1st referendum had 'didn't understand it' as the main reason for voting no, with 40%. Does kinda sound familiar.
Armel
Player Valuation: £15m
They did somewhat amend it, but in a technical (a legally binding protocol) way. In case of a new country joining/ somebody wants to change the treaty etc.... said text will become part of the actual treaty as a protocol. This way they avoided having to re-ratify the treaty in the national parliaments since technically not a letter had changed.
Not necessarily for the better btw.
E.g: For some reason Ireland had an issue with the rotation system for European Commissioners, they wanted to keep 1 a/country. They also wanted assurances that the Treaty would leave their rules on euthanasia and abortion intact. And there was also the reassurance that the treaty wouldn't influence their fiscal rules more than beforehand (was a bit unnecessary but okay), same with their neutrality.
tsubaki
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Look, I am probably more in favour of actual European integration (which is not to say the EU) than most here but that is a bit off; the Treaty itself was kept well away from every electorate bar the Irish, as the result of what happened to the Constitution.
When they rejected it the honest thing to do would have been to look at how the EU and it’s nations had behaved in the preceding 8 years and done something about it (in the hope that something better would emerge from a genuine debate); instead they pandered to the offended sensibilities by the means of a fudge.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
So agreements can be amended, just not reopened......I expect something similar with our exit agreement.....
Fedlingen
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So it's a win for Japan, a stalemate for the EU, and a loss for Sunderland. Sound.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Yep. Freetrade agreements can do that. But it would have happened whether the U.K. was in or out of the EU.....
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Yep, I agree. Said a few times, and as one who would rather remain, blaming Brexit for every negative story is pointless. And dangerous. There will be some bad stuff that will be a direct result of it, but equally, it can also be a convenient fig leaf at times.
Like today, HMV has been bought by some Canadian company, saving 1500 jobs. Down to Brexit? Nah. Similar thing with Nissan.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
Its more likely though that HMV has been bought in order to pick the remaining bits of meat off the carcass (including the brand).
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Oh sure.
NilSatisOptimum
Player Valuation: £70m
You are not comparing like for like, HMV have been going under for years because of Amazon and streaming and the more salient point is the Tory government wanted to give Nissan 10s of millions £s in state aid because of both parties concerns over Brexit. So even the government concludes the same.
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