Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-longer-be-trusted-european-press-condemns-pm

We've made utter mincemeat of our relationship and reputation with our European neighbours. Cretins.

On an unrelated note, could you please give me a quick rundown on the Brexit policy of Corbyn (if it were up to him). So he wants a special customs union? And wants to have a say in how trade deals come about, still wants to do independent trade deals, and he also has issues with accepting state aid rules ? Is that the jest? Also seems a bit like a mess, unless he has expanded somewhere how he would go about doing that in a realistic fashion. Increasingly not a fan of him.

@Armaghtoffee Happy birthday. Hope you had a good one.
 
The withdrawal agreement does not have to be ‘re-opened’. An attached amendment will suffice.....
Hahaha, It’s not even the ROI’s border anymore. It belongs to the EU, the ROI are just an interested party with no voice.....
Why can’t it be renegotiated. Exactly what is it, physics, the law, exactly what stops an organisation from negotiating anything.....can’t wait for the reply.....
lol This is the best you can come up with to the EU ruling out renegotiation ?

You and your Brexit fanatics are up crap creek without a paddle. It's time you faced up to that reality.
 
None of this matters anymore.

The defeat of the Boles/Cooper amendment yesterday has put an end to anything any opposition party can do. The simple fact of the matter is that it's going to be a binary choice between May's deal and a No Deal.

I'm sick at the thought of the Labour Party voting for this deal, but I don't think they'll have any real alternative come March.
I read yesterday that if the Boles/Cooper amendment was defeated it could be put forward again in a couple of weeks when May brings her deal back to the house. At that stage, if no deal looks more likely - which it probably will if she doesn't get her changes on the Irish back-stop - then the amendment stands a good chance of going through. Not sure what good it will do, though.
 
On an unrelated note, could you please give me a quick rundown on the Brexit policy of Corbyn (if it were up to him). So he wants a special customs union? And wants to have a say in how trade deals come about, still wants to do independent trade deals, and he also has issues with accepting state aid rules ? Is that the jest? Also seems a bit like a mess, unless he has expanded somewhere how he would go about doing that in a realistic fashion. Increasingly not a fan of him.

There is a sense, to this non-Corbynite at least, that his Brexit strategy is about as realistic as the Brexit fantasies that David Davis was peddling. He's got a hugely divided party on the matter as well, and is desperately trying to be all things to all people whilst offending no one. I have no confidence at all that he would do a better job on this.
 
There is a sense, to this non-Corbynite at least, that his Brexit strategy is about as realistic as the Brexit fantasies that David Davis was peddling. He's got a hugely divided party on the matter as well, and is desperately trying to be all things to all people whilst offending no one. I have no confidence at all that he would do a better job on this.

Won't matter as much because if Corbyn does get to be PM the expectations of his deal will be completely different to that of Mays when she started the process back in 2016 not to mention her redlines she herself set. We can't forget the last two and bit years, much as opponents of Labour like too...
And it's only in the last week or so May and her Tory Government have started to listen to others!
 
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Won't matter as much because if Corbyn does get to be PM the expectations of his deal will be completely different to that of Mays when she started the process back in 2016 not to mention her redlines she herself set. We can't forget the last two and bit years, much as opponents of Labour like too...
And it's only in the last week or so May and her Tory Government have started to listen to others!

As has been highlighted numerous times in this thread, Europe is increasingly exasperated by Britain. If we decided to toss May on the scrap heap and ride Corbyn in on his white horse, I suspect there would be collective face palms across Brussels. We have shown incompetence on a mass scale for the last three years, and suggesting that after all of that we have an election to go back to the start again is unlikely to be met with a warm reception in Brussels. There is a strong impression that both parties are playing silly buggers to appease their own parties more than the wider public, and at such a time we really do deserve better.

The awful immigration bill is a good example. The Tories try and push through something that's a complete shambles, and Labour can't even seem to muster a collective response. First they say to MPs to abstain, then they change their mind, but 70 or so had already seemed to have made other plans and didn't vote. What an absolute shambles. I'll tell you, when this all started, Brussels was incredibly sad that a valued member was leaving the club, but as this has dragged on that sense of value has eroded at a rapid pace, and this is all down to the idiots we have in Westminster.
 
We are providing solutions. They are giving nothing.

What solution have we provided other than ‘alternative arrangements ‘ ? .

If you spent two years negotiating a deal and then agreed it , the head honcho of the other party said this is the deal and there is no going back only then a couple of weeks later removed the central most difficult plank and said it’s not necessary we can replace it with other arrangements if and when when we come up with them . How would you feel ? Would you feel they were providing solutions or were a bit of a joke ?
 
As has been highlighted numerous times in this thread, Europe is increasingly exasperated by Britain. If we decided to toss May on the scrap heap and ride Corbyn in on his white horse, I suspect there would be collective face palms across Brussels. We have shown incompetence on a mass scale for the last three years, and suggesting that after all of that we have an election to go back to the start again is unlikely to be met with a warm reception in Brussels. There is a strong impression that both parties are playing silly buggers to appease their own parties more than the wider public, and at such a time we really do deserve better.

The awful immigration bill is a good example. The Tories try and push through something that's a complete shambles, and Labour can't even seem to muster a collective response. First they say to MPs to abstain, then they change their mind, but 70 or so had already seemed to have made other plans and didn't vote. What an absolute shambles. I'll tell you, when this all started, Brussels was incredibly sad that a valued member was leaving the club, but as this has dragged on that sense of value has eroded at a rapid pace, and this is all down to the idiots we have in Westminster.

You show complete disregard on how the Labour party is now being run, it responds to it's individual members and thier thoughts. I understand that democracy in its true sense is relative new term for those used to doffing their caps and not responding to CEOs needs for shareholders and then pretending immigration is entirely separate issue, its going to be difficult, but this is Labour now, others like myself have a say now! And if EU want to facepalm that, perhaps I was wrong and we are better off out, but I doubt EU will actually see it the way you do.

The Tory Government have been at the centre of this process, the rest of your idiots in Westminster and devolved nations have begged May for more say in their matters she has up to a week or so arrogantly refused to entertain them. Only when she was handed the biggest policy defeat for a sitting PM she realised the mess she and her government and Tory party have created, and true to form the Tories try and disperse the blame, they like all the power just non of the responsibility.
 
As has been highlighted numerous times in this thread, Europe is increasingly exasperated by Britain. If we decided to toss May on the scrap heap and ride Corbyn in on his white horse, I suspect there would be collective face palms across Brussels. We have shown incompetence on a mass scale for the last three years, and suggesting that after all of that we have an election to go back to the start again is unlikely to be met with a warm reception in Brussels. There is a strong impression that both parties are playing silly buggers to appease their own parties more than the wider public, and at such a time we really do deserve better.

The awful immigration bill is a good example. The Tories try and push through something that's a complete shambles, and Labour can't even seem to muster a collective response. First they say to MPs to abstain, then they change their mind, but 70 or so had already seemed to have made other plans and didn't vote. What an absolute shambles. I'll tell you, when this all started, Brussels was incredibly sad that a valued member was leaving the club, but as this has dragged on that sense of value has eroded at a rapid pace, and this is all down to the idiots we have in Westminster.

I don't disagree with any of this, but there is a logic to it all the same.

The parties are divided because the people themselves are divided. Perhaps astonishingly, MPs are, even now, still by and large representing what they think their constituents want. And in that sense, the system is functioning as intended.

At least with Leave/Remain constrained within Labour and the Conservative Party, the two sides still have to talk to each other.

Whereas a more coherent partisan reflection of the Brexit divide would mean permanent civil Cold War, like in America, where neither Party even attempts to represent the enemy traitors. We should think very carefully before we deciding that's the answer to the current impasse.

In any case, Labour has made clear that although they might not deliver the Brexit that you or anybody else wants - because who could? - it will undoubtedly be a softer Brexit than what the Tories can agree upon.

And, more importantly to me if not to you, Corbyn is also the only national politician with any longer-term ideas on how to resolve the underlying cultural and political crisis, by prioritising the deeper causes of Brexit - namely austerity (centrist liberals' original 'sick of experts' sin) - rather than keeping everything else the same and patching up the effects.
 
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