Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Armel]

Well. A couple of new initiatives were launched with Britain on the outside rather than at the heart as was previously the case. Also the admission that in the event of no deal we'll be removed entirely from the programme and the facilities currently in London will move to Dublin.

What time did you arrive? Where does that leave you?

 

[zzr45]

We don’t have to erect a border , they won’t demand it that’s absolutely true but you know that any member can then make a complaint , or rather raise a dispute, under the grounds that the lack of a border grants the republic .

Here’s a fairly comprehensive text on it , the last line might be of particular interest to you .


There is no rule in the WTO requiring its member governments to secure their borders.

The WTO does not tell countries what to doother than to keep their promises (abide by the WTO agreements and their WTO commitments)

Even when countries break their WTO promises, there is no “confrontation” with “the WTO” and least of all with “WTO officials”

The WTO is member-driven. If in the future other WTO countries believe the UK is violating an agreement, it is they, not the WTO bureaucracy, who will act. They can do so by complaining in a WTO meeting or filing a legal challenge in WTO dispute settlement

Since there is no WTO rule requiring governments to secure their borders, failing to do so would not break any specific agreement

Where the UK might run into trouble is under the WTO’s non-discrimination rules, particularly “most-favoured-nation” treatment (MFN), which means treating one’s trading partners equally

Suppose the UK and EU trade on WTO terms after Brexit. Suppose American apples arriving in the UK at an English port have to go through controls, but Irish apples crossing the border into Northern Ireland (also the UK) do not. Then the US could complain that its apples were discriminated against. They weren’t given equal treatment with Irish apples when they entered the UK.

The US might seek a legal ruling in WTO dispute settlement. Months or years later, the ruling might conclude that the UK had discriminated. So either checks at the English ports would have to be dropped, OR CHECKS AT THE IRISH BORDER WOULD HAVE TO BE SET UP .

Brexit means Brexit. We make the rules. We’ll retake our rightful colonies on the other side of the Atlantic if they don’t respect Brexit.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Seven in 10 Labour-held constituencies voted to leave the EU and a recent meeting of the parliamentary Labour party was dominated by a bitter row over the single market, with MPs in pro-Brexit seats warning that supporting it would damage their electoral chances.

It was 6 in 10 labour constituencies - the 7 in 10 figure was the Tory constituencies.

6 in 10 Labour-held constituencies is not 40m labour voters.
6 in 10 Labour-held constituencies is not 6 in 10 labour voters.

Many Labour-held constituencies could've returned a leave result without a single labour voter voting to leave. Ergo a constituency returning a leave vote doesn't necessarily translate as it being the result of a majority of labour voters voting leave.

The reality is that closer to 3 in 10 labour voters voted Leave.

Even in places like Sunderland, we're seeing growing support to remain with marches last year calling on a people's vote and many seeing the stark reality of what Brexit means for them.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What time did you arrive? Where does that leave you?

I got to Midi around 11 last night in the end. Sure I'll be alright, but no one has any real certainty at the moment. Life will go on, but no one really benefits, which makes it all so daft.

There has already been talk of countries like Israel losing out though due to the fallout. Dog eat dog means everyone loses.

 

[orchard]

It was 6 in 10 labour constituencies - the 7 in 10 figure was the Tory constituencies.

6 in 10 Labour-held constituencies is not 40m labour voters.
6 in 10 Labour-held constituencies is not 6 in 10 labour voters.

Many Labour-held constituencies could've returned a leave result without a single labour voter voting to leave. Ergo a constituency returning a leave vote doesn't necessarily translate as it being the result of a majority of labour voters voting leave.

The reality is that closer to 3 in 10 labour voters voted Leave.

Even in places like Sunderland, we're seeing growing support to remain with marches last year calling on a people's vote and many seeing the stark reality of what Brexit means for them.

Waster x

 

[Joey66]

It was 6 in 10 labour constituencies - the 7 in 10 figure was the Tory constituencies.

6 in 10 Labour-held constituencies is not 40m labour voters.
6 in 10 Labour-held constituencies is not 6 in 10 labour voters.

Many Labour-held constituencies could've returned a leave result without a single labour voter voting to leave. Ergo a constituency returning a leave vote doesn't necessarily translate as it being the result of a majority of labour voters voting leave.

The reality is that closer to 3 in 10 labour voters voted Leave.

Even in places like Sunderland, we're seeing growing support to remain with marches last year calling on a people's vote and many seeing the stark reality of what Brexit means for them.

You are dreaming not many people have changed their minds and even remainers are bewildered how Labour and other parties are doing the best to stop Brexit......

 

[Joey66]

We don’t have to erect a border , they won’t demand it that’s absolutely true but you know that any member can then make a complaint , or rather raise a dispute, under the grounds that the lack of a border grants the republic .

Here’s a fairly comprehensive text on it , the last line might be of particular interest to you .


There is no rule in the WTO requiring its member governments to secure their borders.

The WTO does not tell countries what to doother than to keep their promises (abide by the WTO agreements and their WTO commitments)

Even when countries break their WTO promises, there is no “confrontation” with “the WTO” and least of all with “WTO officials”

The WTO is member-driven. If in the future other WTO countries believe the UK is violating an agreement, it is they, not the WTO bureaucracy, who will act. They can do so by complaining in a WTO meeting or filing a legal challenge in WTO dispute settlement

Since there is no WTO rule requiring governments to secure their borders, failing to do so would not break any specific agreement

Where the UK might run into trouble is under the WTO’s non-discrimination rules, particularly “most-favoured-nation” treatment (MFN), which means treating one’s trading partners equally

Suppose the UK and EU trade on WTO terms after Brexit. Suppose American apples arriving in the UK at an English port have to go through controls, but Irish apples crossing the border into Northern Ireland (also the UK) do not. Then the US could complain that its apples were discriminated against. They weren’t given equal treatment with Irish apples when they entered the UK.

The US might seek a legal ruling in WTO dispute settlement. Months or years later, the ruling might conclude that the UK had discriminated. So either checks at the English ports would have to be dropped, OR CHECKS AT THE IRISH BORDER WOULD HAVE TO BE SET UP .

Also you forgot if your Aunt had balls she'd be your Uncle ..... what a load of ifs, and buts you posted there........

 

[Harryflashman]

Also you forgot if your Aunt had balls she'd be your Uncle ..... what a load of ifs, and buts you posted there........

No there really isn’t any Joe . It’s that people will complain if there isn’t a border , I understand the issues and polarisation over Brexit but do you genuinely believe that one of the WTO members won’t complain ,What about all the evil EU ones ? A dispute will almost certainly be raised Joe and I’d suspect a number , I can’t help but think to claim otherwise is delusion .

 

[peteblue]

I despair! All he wants from our Govt is for them to take the no deal option off the table. How the hell can he and many CEO's like him plan for the future of their companies and the jobs of their employees if the UK Govt continue on this path of self destruction. It's got nothing to do with him being German, but it has everything to do with the incompetance of the UK Govt and the pathetic in-fighting within the tory party.

Strangely enough companies like Airbus cannot just pack up and walk away. He’s had two years to plan and I fully expect the plans to be in place. Six months after we leave everyone will be wondering what the fuss was all about...

 

[peteblue]

Are you in favour of no deal?

I don’t believe is will be as bad as the existing deal on the table......I also believe that within six months everything will have settled down and we will all be wondering what the fuss was about...

 

[Ron Swanson]

You are dreaming not many people have changed their minds and even remainers are bewildered how Labour and other parties are doing the best to stop Brexit......

I'm not dreaming. I'm looking at polling data. And it's not just those changing their mind, it's new voters and those that didn't bother to vote in the last referendum. Most in those two categories, according to polling, are remainers.

I don't deal feelings, but rather facts and information. Evidentally, this is what differentiates me and fellow remainers on here from most of the brexiteers

 

[Ron Swanson]

No there really isn’t any Joe . It’s that people will complain if there isn’t a border , I understand the issues and polarisation over Brexit but do you genuinely believe that one of the WTO members won’t complain ,What about all the evil EU ones ? A dispute will almost certainly be raised Joe and I’d suspect a number , I can’t help but think to claim otherwise is delusion .

The USA under Trump will. And it's hard to imagine Russia passing on an opportunity to stick the knife in. Argentina is another candidate.

 

[peteblue]

I'm not dreaming. I'm looking at polling data. And it's not just those changing their mind, it's new voters and those that didn't bother to vote in the last referendum. Most in those two categories, according to polling, are remainers.

I don't deal feelings, but rather facts and information. Evidentally, this is what differentiates me and fellow remainers on here from most of the brexiteers

Evidentially, the pollsters said that Remain would win the original vote. There’s a fact for you.....

 

[Joey66]

I'm not dreaming. I'm looking at polling data. And it's not just those changing their mind, it's new voters and those that didn't bother to vote in the last referendum. Most in those two categories, according to polling, are remainers.

I don't deal feelings, but rather facts and information. Evidentally, this is what differentiates me and fellow remainers on here from most of the brexiteers

A lot of remain voters respect the democratic vote and wish our government would just get on with it -
Both sides of the HOC
Caroline Flint Labour stated yesterday that MPs are trying to stop Brexit , and on Corbyn making the excuse of take no deal off the table to go, and see May - she stated may should have said OK you take you parties stance of take remain off the table and its on....... also as its against the Labour constituencies that voted out in them.....
Flint by the way campaigned for remain , and she has to promote out as her constituency voted overwhelmingly OUT, and she has hear even from remainers FGS just get on with it so it is you who are out of step........

 

[peteblue]

No there really isn’t any Joe . It’s that people will complain if there isn’t a border , I understand the issues and polarisation over Brexit but do you genuinely believe that one of the WTO members won’t complain ,What about all the evil EU ones ? A dispute will almost certainly be raised Joe and I’d suspect a number , I can’t help but think to claim otherwise is delusion .

If the U.K. has a WTO problem so does the EU unfortunately. This is why this particular argument went very quiet......