Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I could,but that's not what we're discussing, as you well know. Leave won a dubious vote, just, quite a while ago, and we've been waiting for some substance ever since. As a leave voter who's just accused someone of being a Luddite for wanting to remain I was interested in what he wanted to achieve by leaving the EU beyond the usual vacuous cliché.

Well I’m discussing it. Perhaps you could now educate us....

 

[Joey66]

Gosh had more Tags in @ than ever thanks to all I see @Bruce Wayne abstained......

 

[Ruairi77]

My father and grandfather gave me nothing except their lives. My generation built on their sacrifices and now offer today’s generation wealth previously unknown. I never gamble with my family, I have spent a life building for them. I would never jeopardise their future, which is why I voted to leave.....

I’m not saying you personally haven’t done well or that you don’t want the best for your family, I just think it’s a huge gamble that limits the opportunities of future generations. I’ve tried to process why you would be willing to take this gamble and the best I can come up with is that you’re letting your heart rule your head.

 

[edge]

I’m not saying you personally haven’t done well or that you don’t want the best for your family, I just think it’s a huge gamble that limits the opportunities of future generations. I’ve tried to process why you would be willing to take this gamble and the best

sorry mate what are these opportunities you are talking about?
not being sarcastic , genuinely would like to know
off to bed got to be up.early so not ignoring you if i dont reply when you post.

 

[Ruairi77]

sorry mate what are these opportunities you are talking about?
not being sarcastic , genuinely would like to know
off to bed got to be up.early so not ignoring you if i dont reply when you post.

The opportunity to live, work, and study in 27 other countries without any limitations.

 

[edge]

The opportunity to live, work, and study in 27 other countries without any limitations.

if you have the skills they need I am sure they will let you move in the future, don't think any economy including post brexit UK will be turning its noses up at workers who have skills they need.
best of luck if that's what you want in the future, I have never been anywhere I would be able to settle down myself.

 

[orchard]

Well I’m discussing it. Perhaps you could now educate us....

Glad to see you've moved on from the in/out vote two years ago ffs

 

[Harryflashman]

if you have the skills they need I am sure they will let you move in the future, don't think any economy including post brexit UK will be turning its noses up at workers who have skills they need.
best of luck if that's what you want in the future, I have never been anywhere I would be able to settle down myself.

I look at my own friends and family a lot have made real use of the free movement whether studying , working ir just living in the EU. I’ve used it myself but more in short term bursts , like over extended holidays more than anything. I suspect I’d be able to continue doing that , the drawn out Irish passport procedure will hopefully ensure it , it’s whether others who made it a bit more permanent could again . Some were students , some offered a lot with their jobs , one wrote a book whilst his missus worked in a bar and another was a chef what I mean is some may find it easy others I suspect less so and in its own way that’s a bit sad.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

if you have the skills they need I am sure they will let you move in the future, don't think any economy including post brexit UK will be turning its noses up at workers who have skills they need.
best of luck if that's what you want in the future, I have never been anywhere I would be able to settle down myself.

For me, this is akin to the trade discussion. We have always been able to trade internationally, that isn't really what trade deals are about. Rather, by virtue of unifying regulations or reducing/removing tariffs, they're about making trade easier between nations. It's the same with people. Free movement made it as easy as could possibly be to both travel within Europe and settle within Europe. It's quite possible that people will still be able to do things, but the chances have to be pretty high that red tape and paperwork will increase, and thus make it both harder and more expensive to do so.

I mean even a relatively simple example. If EU nationals have lived in the UK for 5 years and wish to gain settled statement, the indications are from March they can apply for that. It's 'relatively' straightforward (although I won't hold my breath on that, and frankly think it's a disgrace that they are losing the right to vote in local elections), but even with it being relatively straightforward, it's still costing £65. Now you might rub your hands together and think wahay, a windfall, but the NHS has agreed to pay that fee for EU staff, because they appreciate the value they bring, so multiply that up over the 63,000 EU nationals working in the NHS and you've spent £4 million on stuff you hadn't previously needed to spend.

As has already been shown in numerous statistics, there is already an impact on numbers coming and working here, which given that the evidence shows they are net contributors to the treasury, that in itself is sucking money out of government too.

 

[edge]

For me, this is akin to the trade discussion. We have always been able to trade internationally, that isn't really what trade deals are about. Rather, by virtue of unifying regulations or reducing/removing tariffs, they're about making trade easier between nations. It's the same with people. Free movement made it as easy as could possibly be to both travel within Europe and settle within Europe. It's quite possible that people will still be able to do things, but the chances have to be pretty high that red tape and paperwork will increase, and thus make it both harder and more expensive to do so.

I mean even a relatively simple example. If EU nationals have lived in the UK for 5 years and wish to gain settled statement, the indications are from March they can apply for that. It's 'relatively' straightforward (although I won't hold my breath on that, and frankly think it's a disgrace that they are losing the right to vote in local elections), but even with it being relatively straightforward, it's still costing £65. Now you might rub your hands together and think wahay, a windfall, but the NHS has agreed to pay that fee for EU staff, because they appreciate the value they bring, so multiply that up over the 63,000 EU nationals working in the NHS and you've spent £4 million on stuff you hadn't previously needed to spend.

As has already been shown in numerous statistics, there is already an impact on numbers coming and working here, which given that the evidence shows they are net contributors to the treasury, that in itself is sucking money out of government too.

There will be a deal on it Bruce, not sure how it will work, don't think any side of the argument will stop workers that each need to function will be stopped .
Unfortunately as I have said before the UK government didn't use the tools at its disposal to manage this better, they didn't and let the subject get used as a weapon , not something even I would blame the EU for.

 

[orchard]

There will be a deal on it Bruce, not sure how it will work, don't think any side of the argument will stop workers that each need to function will be stopped .
Unfortunately as I have said before the UK government didn't use the tools at its disposal to manage this better, they didn't and let the subject get used as a weapon , not something even I would blame the EU for.

Well said, our previous governments have a lot to answer for in this and plenty of other areas as well.
Don't you think that leaving the EU right now, without getting our politics in order first, is at least doubling-down on previous mistakes?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There will be a deal on it Bruce, not sure how it will work, don't think any side of the argument will stop workers that each need to function will be stopped .
Unfortunately as I have said before the UK government didn't use the tools at its disposal to manage this better, they didn't and let the subject get used as a weapon , not something even I would blame the EU for.

For sure, I'm in little doubt that something will come out of it, my concern is that it won't be as nice as the situation we already enjoy. There is so much coming out of Westminster that isn't an interpretation of things, but rather just plain wrong, and when that happens you have to wonder whether they (the supposed best of the best) are incompetent or they're manipulating people. Neither is particularly good, but the latter seems a whole lot darker.

 

[edge]

Well said, our previous governments have a lot to answer for in this and plenty of other areas as well.
Don't you think that leaving the EU right now, without getting our politics in order first, is at least doubling-down on previous mistakes?

Sadly mate, we are getting let down i don't mean me or brexit voters, i mean us all by the government and the EU ,
The EU and government are playing politics instead of getting a deal in place to suit both parties, for instance we the UK cant cherry pick are deal on finance , but the EU want to cherry pick on fisheries .
Our main political parties are sadly in a poor state and has been shown up to be inept , i would say the worst in my lifetime.
In answer to your question orchard , if the deal that is supposed to be on the table is correct, i cannot see why we would want if its worse than staying in , so why do it.
On another note it has taken away focus on home politics which need sorting out.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sadly mate, we are getting let down i don't mean me or brexit voters, i mean us all by the government and the EU ,
The EU and government are playing politics instead of getting a deal in place to suit both parties, for instance we the UK cant cherry pick are deal on finance , but the EU want to cherry pick on fisheries .
Our main political parties are sadly in a poor state and has been shown up to be inept , i would say the worst in my lifetime.
In answer to your question orchard , if the deal that is supposed to be on the table is correct, i cannot see why we would want if its worse than staying in , so why do it.
On another note it has taken away focus on home politics which need sorting out.

I'd say that the 'Norway' model is being pursued because the other option is significantly worse. I think that's perhaps something that has come up here before, that there's a perception that the promised land hasn't been reached because the negotiators are rubbish or the EU are meanies, rather than the more likely reality that the promised land was always delusional. Even the most swivel eyed Tory is unlikely to commit to a policy that will make the country worse off, especially as an election is almost certainly on the cards by the end of any transition period.

 

[edge]

I'd say that the 'Norway' model is being pursued because the other option is significantly worse. I think that's perhaps something that has come up here before, that there's a perception that the promised land hasn't been reached because the negotiators are rubbish or the EU are meanies, rather than the more likely reality that the promised land was always delusional. Even the most swivel eyed Tory is unlikely to commit to a policy that will make the country worse off, especially as an election is almost certainly on the cards by the end of any transition period.

god knows what they will think up bruce i really haven't any faith in them.