Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Number_25]

I'm going to defend @Bruce Wayne a bit here.

It's difficult to comprehend the reasons why people voted to leave. I get it.

I think @Joey66 understands this.

 

[Joey66]

I'm going to defend @Bruce Wayne a bit here.

It's difficult to comprehend the reasons why people voted to leave. I get it.

I think @Joey66 understands this.

I understand he is an avid remainer like Corbyn
But it's not nice being mention with no tag - end of....
Mentioned it to him on many occasions.....

 

[Charlie Sweet]

You won't tag me that's so ignorant Bruce as a mod you should know better, do people talk behind your back?
It's not nice and you should know better, you take the high ground on this thread googling away you upset Brexit posters not just me. I have asked consistently for you to tag me by @ in front of my name if you don't do this to any posters it's a belittling process you seem to think your a knowledgable superior poster not just as a mod on this thread it's disappointing to say the least it's not in the GOT ethos as we are all blue fans!
Brexit negotiations are a mess I agree with that, but you and remainers gloating hoping it will be reversed is not very democratic excuses that 17.4 million voted blind is laughable after such a big campain beforehand.....
I have been called an idiot by you, a racist by others in the heat of an argument that can happen but believe me you not tagging me is a bigger insult it's like being ridiculed by you and your foreseen superiority on this thread, it got scrapped once, and settled down it's getting to the stage only remainers post on here that's not open debate imo......

I read the article Bruce. Another German company CEO complaining about Brexit and telling us what the Germans think of it. What did you think the article really said. Did it tell you about the growth that will come from being in the EU, in fact did it tell you anything about being in the EU ?.......

Apart from Wetherspoons and Dyson are there any other well known/large companies coming out in favour of Brexit?

 

[peteblue]

Security: brexit is threatening the GFA
Growth: brexit means withdrawing from one of the biggest common markets on the planet, limiting trade and travel.

When you take nationalism out of the picture, Brexit is daft.

But perhaps you could just answer my question, without always saying Brexit is daft.......

 

[edge]

You'll always have a willing home for that kind of news here. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-firms-secure-2-billion-of-deals-at-expo-in-shanghai is the release from the horse's mouth.

This kind of thing has always been going on, and it's a bit of a misnomer as there's a perception that our firms can't trade outside the EU because of EU membership, when of course that's been always possible. When I was working with the department of business, there were bodies like the UK India Business Council to promote trade with India, and similar bodies for Asia and the Commonwealth, so these kind of things have always happened.

What seems increasingly the case however, certainly with regards to digital companies, is that those who grow to a huge size tend to have a huge domestic market to work with before they trade overseas. With the best will in the world, the UK doesn't offer that any more than individual European nations do, hence the appeal of the single market, as it, in theory at least, gives British startups a 'domestic' market comparable in size to the US, if not perhaps China and India. Now you could argue, with justification, that this hasn't quite worked out like that, but I'm not sure we'll be any better off for jettisoning the concept.

India is a strange one Bruce , there financial markets are not open to foreign companies, ie insurance ect , well basically what the UK does mostly these days and there laws on taking finance out of the country are really stringent as is ownership by foreign people in certain states, not sure if its really ever going to be a game changer for the UK either in or out of the EU.

 

[peteblue]

Even if he set out his vision, how could he give assurances that it can be delivered without knowing the details of any deal or if indeed it fitted into his vision of brexit at all?
It would be like asking you for assurances that the EU will be better in the coming years if we stayed in.
While dealing with the Italian crisis, eastern European disquiet, the German banking problems the reaction of the USA and Russia to the Euro army and so on,
Could you or any of the others baiting him give us assurances on that?
i suspect not , if you can your wasted on here
Poor show , the last few days in regards to @Joey66
not shown GOT up very well at all singling a poster out for constant baiting whatever your views on brexit .

My point entirely......

 

[peteblue]

Well yes, he said that his commercial life would be easier if Britain was in the EU than if it wasn't. You and others have banged the 'trading with the world' drum, but the vast majority of the companies that would do that trading don't seem to agree with your prognosis.



If you're getting wound up by whether someone puts a @ in front of your name Pete, then I really don't know. It would seem to me a nice mark of respect if people would actually do the courtesy of answering questions people ask of them. As you (in the royal sense) never fail to remind us, leave won the referendum, yet there has been practically no attempts made to showcase how this will benefit our lives, either from official leave supporters, the government or you guys on this thread. Yet when people say that's bloody poor, you throw your hands up. What do you expect?

Now Bruce you know that I tend not to say ‘we won’, but on here all the Remainers keep asking questions, many valid, to which no one really knows the answer. Yet when questions are asked of Remainers it all goes a bit quiet...a bit of balance would be nice.....

 

[peteblue]

Well, on that trading with the world thing that people bang on about, since we voted to leave, the EU have signed deals with Japan and Canada. We've signed bugger all, so that's 2-0 to them I'd say.

So they won. Excellent. But you do realise that we are still in the EU and that any trade deals done will be easy to roll over.....oh, and I’m not sure that the Japan deal is actually done.....

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Bruce i cant speak for others but i have always put my reasons for wanting brexit out there and replied when asked to explain them as best as i can.
We have had many a discussion on here together, both as far as i can recall neither has willingly just ignored anything the other has to say, maybe a bit of prodding each other for a bit of banter now and again , but always with a bit of respect,
i honestly dont think @Joey66 has been getting that the last few days .
He hasn't been well of late and i know it might not be meant as bullying , but it is obviously getting to him at a time when he more than likely isnt up to it not nice to see mate in my view.

Sorry edge but any poster who claims that not being tagged is worse than being labelled a racist deserves to be laughed out of town for such nonsense. That applies to any poster whether they are pro or anti Brexit. A comment like that is a self-inflicted own goal deserving of derision which isn't bullying.

If he actually responded to some of the points put forward by the likes of @Bruce Wayne and stopped whinging about project fear/remoaners/ you lost we won/someone hasn't tagged me properly, then the rest of us would have much more respect for his opinions.

 

[peteblue]

This is the thing, with the possible exception of those here who have actually been party to the discussions around Brexit, most of us are about as informed on this as we are on football, so our individual opinions aren't really worth much as we lack the information. The thing is, there are people out there who have much better information and so can have a much more informed stab at these things, which is why people cite other sources.

This could be business leaders who have the power to invest/divest resources. It could be academics or economists who devote their lives to understanding issues, ranging from migration to trade deals. I can't vouch for others, but if Joe had brought to the table that kind of input, then I, and I suspect others, would have listened wholeheartedly. But that hasn't happened, and so people who are concerned that this is a monumental balls up are concerned, and their backs are up when that concern is dismissed with platitudes, because it's hard not to assume that if people can't explain things in more than a few sentences, then things really haven't been thought through at all.

I'm sorry if this upsets people, but the ball really is in your (royal you) court on this one.

Thing is though Bruce, is that people who actually do understand tend not to quote a myriad of other sources, because they know. I’ll grant you that academics and economists, who have never actually ran a business, can quote no end of studies and reports, because that is what their life is about, not actually getting out there and trading.

I’m sorry if this upsets those who do not understand business or have never done it, but the ball really is in your court to prove you have some knowledge or experience......

 

[peteblue]

Thanks for that and having the decency to link the @ to my name - I accept different views but to mention some poster and not use that link is like being two faced imo .........
keeping off this thread for a while now like @Old Blue 2 it seems a little one sided and not really sensible debate - thanks for support from you and @peteblue

Don’t do that Joey, the thread would die with just Remainers telling us how bad it’s going to be, without any proof of course......

 

[peteblue]

we cant sign any deals till we leave as you well know Bruce cheap shot your better than that.

I’m not sure he is tbh.....

 

[peteblue]

It's perhaps also worth repeating Pete that that German company CEO is a British lifelong Tory supporter who says he can no longer vote for them as they no longer support business.

Which has nothing to do with Brexit. I’ve said before, CEO’s are not taking a long term view, even this guy reminded us that he will soon retire to Spain or wherever. He is only interested in the next two years and how his bonus, share options and LTIP’s are performing.....

 

[peteblue]

we or should i say UK business has just done billion pound deals with China thanks to a trade show hardly a mention, i think they are aware we are leaving the EU,
Argentina had agricultural people over here two weeks ago also,
You are completely correct in saying none of us know to full picture.
right now are we better off in or out?
well if what we are currently hearing the deal is , i would honestly say we would be better off in, than half in half out.
would i want a hard brexit , although my personal wishes are to leave, i dont think its either parties interest to do that.

And yet, in spite of the doom and gloom we were promised, the country and our exports are doing really well. You just know that the more avid Remainers really hate this.....

 

[Ruairi77]

But perhaps you could just answer my question, without always saying Brexit is daft.......

What if that’s the answer to your question